2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Toonage]

Neal & Bennett on a line would be fun. Such surly miserable potential. Tough to match against.

[Poe969]

whatever the deal is, it can't happen now to make sense.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Bob McKenzie suggesting Vegas will flip Neal... lets see those crazy proposals....

You'd think they'd want a 1st, top prospect or young player for him.

I wouldn't want to trade this years 1st. Almost more comfortable moving next years. 2018 1st?

I wouldn't trade Gillies/Janko/Parsons/Andersson for him. But a deal centered around Kylington or Fox? I might do that

I would think the young players with value on our team (Tkachuk, Ferland, Bennett, Hamilton, etc) would be untouchable in such a deal

[dino7c]

Gotta think Neal would at least start on the top line in that scenario...and I doubt they ever look back

I would trade this years first in a heartbeat

[StrykerSteve]

Poirier and Klimchuk for Neal?

[Toonage]

My understanding is that he's the real deal, so a 1st wouldn't be an overpayment.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Poirier and Klimchuk for Neal?

We wish. Price is going to be significantly higher.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

You'd think they'd want a 1st, top prospect or young player for him.

I wouldn't want to trade this years 1st. Almost more comfortable moving next years. 2018 1st?

I wouldn't trade Gillies/Janko/Parsons/Andersson for him. But a deal centered around Kylington or Fox? I might do that

I would think the young players with value on our team would be untouchable in such a deal

Neal only has a year left on his deal. Not worth giving up our 1st or one of our top prospects.

He would be a decent fit but i would rather have Evander Kane who I think will cost the same. Honestly not big on either unless the price was pretty cheap

Gladly give up our 1st+ if we could trade for Nino, Coyle, Dumba, Hamonic, Palat etc

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

]is there anyone on the free agent market that you think might fit into that 4 spot better based on defensive ability (shot suppression etc...)? I think we'd probably prefer a guy who is really able to shut it down defensively, but maybe not big offensively.

TThe numbers and the "belief" create a cognitive dissonance.

A lot of opinions say we "need" a shutdown defenseman, not an offensive defenseman, because Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton already put up points.

The numbers say we "need" an offensive defenseman because Brodie-Stone/Wideman were some of the worst shot generation bottom four defenses in the NHL.

All things considered (Quality of Teammate, Quality of Competition) TJ Brodie is pretty much top five or top ten in the league as a shot suppression guy, and we don't even need him to be because Gio/Hamilton already take on all the shutdown minutes.

Last year the Flames were top ten in shot suppression as our only center who really saw big shot totals against was Monahan, and our only pair who saw big shot totals against was Bartkowski-Engelland. Brodie-Stone saw remarkably average shot totals against (Basically Stone's bad shot suppression and Brodie's elite shot suppression cancelled each other out).

However we were bottom ten in shot generation - we did not generate shots, we limited them just fine for the most part.

IMO what we need at the four spot is a guy who

1) Is cost-effective (no anchor contract going forward)
2) Can be just average in shot suppression (which, right there, is a huge upgrade on Stone/Alzner)
3) Can generate shots, because Brodie doesn't.
4) Kills penalties, because Hamilton isn't being used in that role.

My proposal was to bring in Del Zotto. Only 26-27 years old, even though it feels he's been around forever. Not the best advanced stats, but remarkably average with a skew towards shot generation. According to Flyers fans he's been strong defensively under Hakstol, but not the offensive guy he used to be in the past. Historically he's been productive though, which I think people are mistakenly underrating. Has statisically been Philly's 3rd best penalty killing D over the last three years by goals and their second best penalty killing D by shot attempts. Can skate.

I've seen Franson thrown around as a top four option. I want him too - on our third pair, but I'm not crazy about a slower player on our top four. Could work against bigger teams like Anaheim, but probably not the best option against quicker teams. But having both Franson and Del Zotto be able to play with Brodie depending on opponent would make a ton of sense. Advanced stats wise he might actually be the best D available, even including Shattenkirk who plays more sheltered minutes. But like I said, I'd feel more comfortable with:

Del Zotto-Brodie
Kulak-Franson

than most other options. Plus I like Brodie back on the right side.

Franson is also a strong penalty killer by goal/shot metrics. So we would have a top six that can kill penalties, sustain offense (which would do wonders for guys like Bennett, Versteeg and Jankowski)

But again, it comes back to cognitive dissonance. People miss Regehr. I miss Regehr too. But just because we don't have Regehr, means we need a Regehr for a complete blue line. Sure, I'd love to grab Radko Gudas or Josh Manson, those are the modern day Regehrs and guess what, they're not there in the UFA market. We tried signing a guy in that vein in Josh Healy, hopefully he lives up to the Gudas Comparision, and I am also very high on Adam Ollas Mattsson. But those are guys that you have to develop internally because teams don't just let them walk in UFA. They let Alzners and Stones walk, guys who slightly resemble that type of stay-at-home guy but ultimately spend more time chasing the play than containing it.

We have to look at what's working for other teams - Nashville with Ellis, Josi, Ekholm, and Subban, Pittsburgh with Letang, Dumoulin, Matta, Schultz, Cole. Skating and keeping the play moving forward. It's "too pretty" on paper, but it's working. That's why I want Del Zotto as our #4, and Kulak as a mainstay on the third pair. I'd love Stone back too, in the role i described above for Franson (play with Brodie against bigger teams, but not all the time). Having offensively productive defenseman is not an unnecessary thing - most championship teams get a LOT of offense from the blue line. It' s just too hard to score out of the cycle, even Getzlaf, Perry, and the Sedins are struggling to do it as the league moves forward.

[SuperMatt18]

With the Panthers leaving Demers unprotected and some speculation that they want to get out from that contract I would love for the Flames to inquire about his availability.

Do that and then sign Kulikov who has seen his value drop in the last year.

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Demers
Kulikov- Andersson

That would be a pretty good, well rounded d-core IMO.

[Murph]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

TThe numbers and the "belief" create a cognitive dissonance.

A lot of opinions say we "need" a shutdown defenseman, not an offensive defenseman, because Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton already put up points.

The numbers say we "need" an offensive defenseman because Brodie-Stone/Wideman were some of the worst shot generation bottom four defenses in the NHL.

All things considered (Quality of Teammate, Quality of Competition) TJ Brodie is pretty much top five or top ten in the league as a shot suppression guy, and we don't even need him to be because Gio/Hamilton already take on all the shutdown minutes.

Last year the Flames were top ten in shot suppression as our only center who really saw big shot totals against was Monahan, and our only pair who saw big shot totals against was Bartkowski-Engelland. Brodie-Stone saw remarkably average shot totals against (Basically Stone's bad shot suppression and Brodie's elite shot suppression cancelled each other out).

However we were bottom ten in shot generation - we did not generate shots, we limited them just fine for the most part.

IMO what we need at the four spot is a guy who

1) Is cost-effective (no anchor contract going forward)
2) Can be just average in shot suppression (which, right there, is a huge upgrade on Stone/Alzner)
3) Can generate shots, because Brodie doesn't.
4) Kills penalties, because Hamilton isn't being used in that role.

My proposal was to bring in Del Zotto. Only 26-27 years old, even though it feels he's been around forever. Not the best advanced stats, but remarkably average with a skew towards shot generation. According to Flyers fans he's been strong defensively under Hakstol, but not the offensive guy he used to be in the past. Historically he's been productive though, which I think people are mistakenly underrating. Has statisically been Philly's 3rd best penalty killing D over the last three years by goals and their second best penalty killing D by shot attempts. Can skate.

I've seen Franson thrown around as a top four option. I want him too - on our third pair, but I'm not crazy about a slower player on our top four. Could work against bigger teams like Anaheim, but probably not the best option against quicker teams. But having both Franson and Del Zotto be able to play with Brodie depending on opponent would make a ton of sense. Advanced stats wise he might actually be the best D available, even including Shattenkirk who plays more sheltered minutes. But like I said, I'd feel more comfortable with:

Del Zotto-Brodie
Kulak-Franson

than most other options. Plus I like Brodie back on the right side.

Franson is also a strong penalty killer by goal/shot metrics. So we would have a top six that can kill penalties, sustain offense (which would do wonders for guys like Bennett, Versteeg and Jankowski)

But again, it comes back to cognitive dissonance. People miss Regehr. I miss Regehr too. But just because we don't have Regehr, means we need a Regehr for a complete blue line. Sure, I'd love to grab Radko Gudas or Josh Manson, those are the modern day Regehrs and guess what, they're not there in the UFA market. We tried signing a guy in that vein in Josh Healy, hopefully he lives up to the Gudas Comparision, and I am also very high on Adam Ollas Mattsson. But those are guys that you have to develop internally because teams don't just let them walk in UFA. They let Alzners and Stones walk, guys who slightly resemble that type of stay-at-home guy but ultimately spend more time chasing the play than containing it.

We have to look at what's working for other teams - Nashville with Ellis, Josi, Ekholm, and Subban, Pittsburgh with Letang, Dumoulin, Matta, Schultz, Cole. Skating and keeping the play moving forward. It's "too pretty" on paper, but it's working. That's why I want Del Zotto as our #4, and Kulak as a mainstay on the third pair. I'd love Stone back too, in the role i described above for Franson (play with Brodie against bigger teams, but not all the time). Having offensively productive defenseman is not an unnecessary thing - most championship teams get a LOT of offense from the blue line. It' s just too hard to score out of the cycle, even Getzlaf, Perry, and the Sedins are struggling to do it as the league moves forward.

Damn you and your reasoned, well-thought out posts which are supported by advanced stats. I may now be forced to learn how these stats are gathered and what they mean.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Neal only has a year left on his deal. Not worth giving up our 1st or one of our top prospects.

He would be a decent fit but i would rather have Evander Kane who I think will cost the same. Honestly not big on either unless the price was pretty cheap

Gladly give up our 1st+ if we could trade for Nino, Coyle, Dumba, Hamonic, Palat etc

assuming you could work out a deal with Neal it would be well worth it IMO

Neal is EXACTLY what this team needs

[Toonage]

On the bright side, you just know that Treliving is looking at everything and talking to everyone. If the Flames can improve over the weekend, they will.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

TThe numbers and the "belief" create a cognitive dissonance.

A lot of opinions say we "need" a shutdown defenseman, not an offensive defenseman, because Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton already put up points.

The numbers say we "need" an offensive defenseman because Brodie-Stone/Wideman were some of the worst shot generation bottom four defenses in the NHL.

All things considered (Quality of Teammate, Quality of Competition) TJ Brodie is pretty much top five or top ten in the league as a shot suppression guy, and we don't even need him to be because Gio/Hamilton already take on all the shutdown minutes.

Last year the Flames were top ten in shot suppression as our only center who really saw big shot totals against was Monahan, and our only pair who saw big shot totals against was Bartkowski-Engelland. Brodie-Stone saw remarkably average shot totals against (Basically Stone's bad shot suppression and Brodie's elite shot suppression cancelled each other out).

However we were bottom ten in shot generation - we did not generate shots, we limited them just fine for the most part.

IMO what we need at the four spot is a guy who

1) Is cost-effective (no anchor contract going forward)
2) Can be just average in shot suppression (which, right there, is a huge upgrade on Stone/Alzner)
3) Can generate shots, because Brodie doesn't.
4) Kills penalties, because Hamilton isn't being used in that role.

My proposal was to bring in Del Zotto. Only 26-27 years old, even though it feels he's been around forever. Not the best advanced stats, but remarkably average with a skew towards shot generation. According to Flyers fans he's been strong defensively under Hakstol, but not the offensive guy he used to be in the past. Historically he's been productive though, which I think people are mistakenly underrating. Has statisically been Philly's 3rd best penalty killing D over the last three years by goals and their second best penalty killing D by shot attempts. Can skate.

I've seen Franson thrown around as a top four option. I want him too - on our third pair, but I'm not crazy about a slower player on our top four. Could work against bigger teams like Anaheim, but probably not the best option against quicker teams. But having both Franson and Del Zotto be able to play with Brodie depending on opponent would make a ton of sense. Advanced stats wise he might actually be the best D available, even including Shattenkirk who plays more sheltered minutes. But like I said, I'd feel more comfortable with:

Del Zotto-Brodie
Kulak-Franson

than most other options. Plus I like Brodie back on the right side.

Franson is also a strong penalty killer by goal/shot metrics. So we would have a top six that can kill penalties, sustain offense (which would do wonders for guys like Bennett, Versteeg and Jankowski)

But again, it comes back to cognitive dissonance. People miss Regehr. I miss Regehr too. But just because we don't have Regehr, means we need a Regehr for a complete blue line. Sure, I'd love to grab Radko Gudas or Josh Manson, those are the modern day Regehrs and guess what, they're not there in the UFA market. We tried signing a guy in that vein in Josh Healy, hopefully he lives up to the Gudas Comparision, and I am also very high on Adam Ollas Mattsson. But those are guys that you have to develop internally because teams don't just let them walk in UFA. They let Alzners and Stones walk, guys who slightly resemble that type of stay-at-home guy but ultimately spend more time chasing the play than containing it.

We have to look at what's working for other teams - Nashville with Ellis, Josi, Ekholm, and Subban, Pittsburgh with Letang, Dumoulin, Matta, Schultz, Cole. Skating and keeping the play moving forward. It's "too pretty" on paper, but it's working. That's why I want Del Zotto as our #4, and Kulak as a mainstay on the third pair. I'd love Stone back too, in the role i described above for Franson (play with Brodie against bigger teams, but not all the time). Having offensively productive defenseman is not an unnecessary thing - most championship teams get a LOT of offense from the blue line. It' s just too hard to score out of the cycle, even Getzlaf, Perry, and the Sedins are struggling to do it as the league moves forward.

Good post.

[JurassicTunga12]

So now that the expansion draft is over and done with, the next few days should be interesting. Lots of action. I read that there is a bunch of trades that are in line for when the deadline is lifted and a lot should be announced tomorrow? Wonder if the Flames kick tires on James Neal and a d-man like Nate Schmidt or Methot?

[Fire]

The Knight will have to trade about 10 of their selections. A lot more draft picks and prospects going to Vegas.

[sureLoss]

trade freeze lifts tomorrow 6am MT

supposedly multiple trades waiting to be processed.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

trade freeze lifts tomorrow 6am MT

supposedly multiple trades waiting to be processed.

Yeah no doubt. They took what, 13 defensemen? Probably have to deal away at least 4-6 of them.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/goldenknights

Gotta think Treliving will talk a lot with GMGM about his extra defensemen.

Up front they've got Neal, Perron and Marchessault as UFAs next summer, might shop them.

On the backend they've got Garrison, Emelin, Sbisa, Stoner, McNabb and Engelland as UFAs next summer. Probably shopping several of those and Methot who has 2 years left.

Pretty hard to know what their roster will look like with so many assets still likely to be dealt. Presumably they may be big players on July 1st too.

I'd expect a lot of movement in the next 3 days.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

trade freeze lifts tomorrow 6am MT

supposedly multiple trades waiting to be processed.

Yep. And didn't Brad sort of imply last weekend that the Flames had some moves lined up but were just waiting on the trade freeze?

I'm excited to see what transpires.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Prediction - 2018 4th + 2018 7th for Schlemko.
Or they take a run at Schmidt.