Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's a stupid risk to take. If you don't know who Smith is by now, you never will. She won an election, the only conclusion is that the voters get what they deserve. Hopefully some of them get it sooner.

Albertans will come out to vote when they’re angry. It sucks that sometimes things have to get worse before they get better but expecting that her doing absolutely nothing will result in more Albertans showing up to vote her out next time around seems a little unrealistic.

As for you assessment of my point being a “stupid” risk to take, if memory serves me correctly you had a lot of negative things to say about my takes leading up to the 2019 election and but that wasn’t the case this time around so I’m hopeful you’ll eventually come around on this issue too

[Fuzz]

Naw, the province is a better place with her doing nothing than something. If her past history wasn't enough for people to figure it out, nothing is going to change that. I've lost all faith in people having enough intelligence to vote in their own best interests. They are just too stupid. That isn't going to change in 4 years. So the next best option is Smith being distracted washing dishes.

[Firebot]

Alberta had a 62.4% turnout this election, 5% less than 2019. More people showed up to vote to remove Notley in 2019.

For a province supposedly upset with how it was being run, it certainly did not show in the polls.

Clearly Notley and the NDP did not appeal enough despite Smith being worst possible premier.

Voter apathy reigned when supposedly the province was angry. Don't blame UCP voters, when they practiced their democratic vote. Blame the non-voters who would rather sit and moan than doing something about their government (especially in an election were a vote did matter in many instances)

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Naw, the province is a better place with her doing nothing than something. If her past history wasn't enough for people to figure it out, nothing is going to change that. I've lost all faith in people having enough intelligence to vote in their own best interests. They are just too stupid. That isn't going to change in 4 years. So the next best option is Smith being distracted washing dishes.

10 years ago would you have predicted that in the next 3 provincial elections the ANDP would win a majority in one and receive 44% of the popular vote in another?

Unfortunately change takes time.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Alberta had a 62.4% turnout this election, 5% less than 2019. More people showed up to vote to remove Notley in 2019.

For a province supposedly upset with how it was being run, it certainly did not show in the polls.

Clearly Notley and the NDP did not appeal enough despite Smith being worst possible premier.

Voter apathy reigned when supposedly the province was angry. Don't blame UCP voters, when they practiced their democratic vote. Blame the non-voters who would rather sit and moan than doing something about their government (especially in an election were a vote did matter in many instances)

That's a good one. No, all the facts were there. People are just dumb and will automatically vote Conservative becuase they are incapable of analyzing facts, and believe all the bull#### spewed from right wing "media".

[Firebot]

You had several UCP voters explain their vote in the election thread and why they chose UCP over NDP. The 2019 election has shown that when there are angry voters, at least on the UCP side they will come out and vote.

No matter how you slice it, despite the pandemic response and people 'enraged' at the UCP, voter turnout went down by 5%. Smith lost votes and Notley gained votes, but not enough to make a difference.

https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...ly-for-the-ndp

[Doctorfever]

Ahhh Fuzz. I admit I do get a chuckle from you “outbursts” in this thread. I could take half of your posts in this thread and replace Federal Liberals for UCP and you would match exactly how I feel in that thread.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I could take half of your posts in this thread and replace Federal Liberals for UCP and you would match exactly how I feel in that thread.

Funny you say that. I was venting with someone and they mentioned how "intelligence is being silenced for the voice of the minority". We both agreed, except he saw it from the opposite side I did, and yet only one is true.

[DownInFlames]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1668771954504138752

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's a good one. No, all the facts were there. People are just dumb and will automatically vote Conservative becuase they are incapable of analyzing facts, and believe all the bull#### spewed from right wing "media".

Have you considered moving to BC? The lower mainland or vancouver island specifically.

I honestly think you’d be happier.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Alberta had a 62.4% turnout this election, 5% less than 2019. More people showed up to vote to remove Notley in 2019.

For a province supposedly upset with how it was being run, it certainly did not show in the polls.

Clearly Notley and the NDP did not appeal enough despite Smith being worst possible premier.

Voter apathy reigned when supposedly the province was angry. Don't blame UCP voters, when they practiced their democratic vote. Blame the non-voters who would rather sit and moan than doing something about their government (especially in an election were a vote did matter in many instances)

IIRC it was the 2nd highest turnout ever? And the weakest majority gov't ever...and actually the highest ever number and proportion of votes ever for the NDP.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

https://twitter.com/user/status/1668771954504138752

The party needs a new leader. She's not a lot different from O'Toole and Scheer in that her opponent was practically handing her the election and she just couldn't make herself a compelling enough of an alternative. The NDP has made some ground but I would expect diminishing returns from now on as long as they continue to trot Rachel out as their leader.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The party needs a new leader. She's not a lot different from O'Toole and Scheer in that her opponent was practically handing her the election and she just couldn't make herself a compelling enough of an alternative. The NDP has made some ground but I would expect diminishing returns from now on as long as they continue to trot Rachel out as their leader.

Agreed, minus the interference from China.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

IIRC it was the 2nd highest turnout ever? And the weakest majority gov't ever...and actually the highest ever number and proportion of votes ever for the NDP.

The highest turnout ever was in 2019 to oust Notley while this one had 5% less. Past elections had huge voter apathy being there was only one true choice until very recently. Considering the high stakes involved and the high chance that Smith could have been ousted with the NDP leading in polls prior to the election you would have thought that outraged Albertans would have come out in higher numbers.

Again, this is Smith we are talking about.

Notley's numbers were the best she ever had...but it's not enough. There's no sugarcoating it here, the elections were prime for the taking and she was let down by a poor campaign and progressive voter apathy.

And the Albertan NDP absolutely must drop the NDP brand to truly become a viable choice and run independently as a centre party closer to its platform, the brand is toxic to Albertans especially when Singh's NDP wants to raze Alberta's economy to the ground and she has to continuously defend her own party all the time.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/i-di...ance-1.6397351

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The highest turnout ever was in 2019 to oust Notley while this one had 5% less. Past elections had huge voter apathy being there was only one true choice until very recently. Considering the high stakes involved and the high chance that Smith could have been ousted with the NDP leading in polls prior to the election you would have thought that outraged Albertans would have come out in higher numbers.

Again, this is Smith we are talking about.

Notley's numbers were the best she ever had...but it's not enough. There's no sugarcoating it here, the elections were prime for the taking and she was let down by a poor campaign and progressive voter apathy.

I also think part of it was the hardening of the voter mindset.
Alberta obviously is very team blue and has been for 50 years.

but Canadian politics has moved in he direction of American politics and it's no longer about the people running but what team you're on.

This election really proved that the people running and what they stand for no longer matter as much as voting for your team and trying to "own" the other team.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The party needs a new leader. She's not a lot different from O'Toole and Scheer in that her opponent was practically handing her the election and she just couldn't make herself a compelling enough of an alternative. The NDP has made some ground but I would expect diminishing returns from now on as long as they continue to trot Rachel out as their leader.

You can probably say the same thing about the federal version since Singh keeps propping up the village idiot Trudeau.

[Firebot]

I updated my post after you posted, but it has less to do with team 'blue', than it does to have team 'orange'. Alberta is by and large a conservative province and our main resource remain oil & gas and the energy sector.

Liberal as a brand is completely dead in Alberta due to their federal cousin undermining Alberta in the 80s. Anything with the word Liberal is extremely toxic here.

And the Alberta NDP only recently became a viable alternative who got in on 2015 on a protest vote at a time when the right vote was split. If you look at 2015's platform and 2023 they are very different, and the NDP and Notley smartly moved to to the right / center from their original stance once they got a mandate, knowing they had an opportunity here. But it's incredibly difficult to win Albertan minds when you have this from Singh branding the same orange NDP.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star...manifesto.html

Albertans associate the brand NDP with a total ban on fossil fuels and cutting our economy by the neck with no remediation plan. It doesn't matter if we go out and debate that the ANDP is for oil, when we are also told they are the same party and membership in one is membership in all.

Rebrand and call it the Western Progressive Albertan Party. Honestly it will get the dumber folks who vote on party name alone to perhaps vote for it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

I updated my post after you posted, but it has less to do with team 'blue', than it does to have team 'orange'. Alberta is by and large a conservative province and our main resource remain oil & gas and the energy sector.

Liberal as a brand is completely dead in Alberta due to their federal cousin undermining Alberta in the 80s. Anything with the word Liberal is extremely toxic here.

And the Alberta NDP only recently became a viable alternative who got in on 2015 on a protest vote at a time when the right vote was split. If you look at 2015's platform and 2023 they are very different, and the NDP and Notley smartly moved to to the right / center from their original stance once they got a mandate, knowing they had an opportunity here. But it's incredibly difficult to win Albertan minds when you have this from Singh branding the same orange NDP.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star...manifesto.html

Albertans associate the brand NDP with a total ban on fossil fuels and cutting our economy by the neck with no remediation plan. It doesn't matter if we go out and debate that the ANDP is for oil, when we are also told they are the same party and membership in one is membership in all.

Rebrand and call it the Western Progressive Albertan Party. Honestly it will get the dumber folks who vote on party name alone to perhaps vote for it.

You start here and end there. The problem is not NDP voters, it's ignorant Conservative ones, so you eventually got to the correct answer.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The party needs a new leader. She's not a lot different from O'Toole and Scheer in that her opponent was practically handing her the election and she just couldn't make herself a compelling enough of an alternative. The NDP has made some ground but I would expect diminishing returns from now on as long as they continue to trot Rachel out as their leader.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Canadian political landscape, and O'Toole's speech the other day highlighted why.

For the general voters of Canada to support the conservative party, the conservative party needs to loudly and fundamentally distance itself from the fringe that it has courted since it mated with the alliance. Harper was able to win because he loudly stated that they would focus only on economics, and as soon as the tide turned from within towards more socially regressive policies the party lost. He was only able to even form a minority for the first two attempts.

O'Toole and Scheer both failed to repudiate the flank enough. The general public has largely shown to be willing to deal with corruption or inexperience over socially regressive policy. That's why even now the cons are making such weak gains federally while most of the Lib loss is flowing to NDP.
I do think we will see conservatives form government in the next two federal elections, but I would bet Pollievre isn't the one who's going to do it. It also depends on if the Liberals do an about face and purge some of the obvious corruption. They're always able to buy more favor, it seems.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You start here and end there. The problem is not NDP voters, it's ignorant Conservative ones, so you eventually got to the correct answer.

You are part of the problem and part of this division. By continuously pointing that Conservative voters are dumb over and over, you are doing the exact same thing you accuse them of.

Your refusal to accept that politics are not black and white on all issues as you do (see christofacist thread and linking it to voting UCP / CPC), you create that same environment you accuse others of doing.

If you can't see why the NDP brand in general is toxic in Alberta and you cannot fathom to understand why, when you can't see why Notley has to continuously make these types of statement due to Singh because of the NDP affiliation, I can't help you.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/i-di...ance-1.6397351