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Old 11-15-2019, 11:14 PM   #1521
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:19 PM   #1522
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I caught part of the game, where we got the goal off the corner. For periods we seemed to be a threatening, and the talent is there, but consistency is key. I didn't expect to win this one, but if you're a soccer fan in Canada you can't complain with what we have witnessed in the last month or so. Wish we could have got some easy points against some lower teams; that loss to Haiti was hard to swallow IMO.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:20 PM   #1523
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Just watched it. My thoughts:
- Canada shoulda been awarded a PK in the 21st. USA scores in the 24th to make it 2-0. Curtains.
- Canada plays a pretty good brand of football. We build plays through our midfield as they show quite well. We donít just play direct over the top and into the corners. Great to see for a Canadian team
- We actually carried the play most the game, but cannot handle any sort of counter. Our back line is very poor defensively. Ball watchers, leaving guys wide open in our own 18 even
- Tough not to go out on a break like that, but Borjan woulda been better off staying in his net on the 2nd goal
- Davies is really establishing himself. His speed with and without the ball is his obvious strength, but what stood out to me was how good he is in tight quarters. Playing with Bayern is paying off
- Obviously a typical Canadian result in a game that means something, but we werenít outplayed to the tune of 4-1.

I like the direction of the CMNT. I like the brand weíre playing. Excited for the future tbh. 2062 WC here we come!
Haha, I know you meant 2026 WC, but 2062 is probably more accurate anyway. I think the first US goal was offside. I guess it deflected off a defender but I couldn't see that on the replay.

But, you're right. The backline was completely shambolic and that killed us. We couldn't handle the break and didn't look great on set pieces either.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:23 PM   #1524
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Haha, I know you meant 2026 WC, but 2062 is probably more accurate anyway. I think the first US goal was offside. I guess it deflected off a defender but I couldn't see that on the replay.

But, you're right. The backline was completely shambolic and that killed us. We couldn't handle the break and didn't look great on set pieces either.
No, 2062 is exactly what I meant lol. Basically despite all my positivity, I just assume itíll still be decades.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:24 PM   #1525
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I think we were given false hope. Really Canada wouldn't survive the Hex. Let's develop and go through the losers tournament and see what happens.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:29 PM   #1526
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Also, special mention to Doneil Henry. He is atrocious. For such a big dude, he doesn’t win anything. And can’t distribute. I don’t even know how he’s a professional.
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Old 11-16-2019, 07:32 AM   #1527
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I think we were given false hope. Really Canada wouldn't survive the Hex. Let's develop and go through the losers tournament and see what happens.
If I'm being entirely honest, that point about the hex was my concern as well. But I guess I just hoped that somehow they'd make it to the hex and things would click so that we could compete there.
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Old 11-16-2019, 08:55 AM   #1528
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Does the U.S. getting 4 goals versus say 1 or 2 make this a worse for us in the points totals?
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Old 11-16-2019, 09:14 AM   #1529
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If I'm being entirely honest, that point about the hex was my concern as well. But I guess I just hoped that somehow they'd make it to the hex and things would click so that we could compete there.
We would definitely be underdogs in the hex but I think those ten games would be huge for our development. Playing the likes of Mexico, USA, Costa Rica and Honduras home and away would be just what this group needs.

And I think the hex still gives us better chance of qualifying compared to the alternative route.
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Old 11-16-2019, 01:00 PM   #1530
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We would definitely be underdogs in the hex but I think those ten games would be huge for our development. Playing the likes of Mexico, USA, Costa Rica and Honduras home and away would be just what this group needs.

And I think the hex still gives us better chance of qualifying compared to the alternative route.

Yeah that secondary qualifying route is like a 0.01% chance of qualifying. Survive a ton of hurdles against the likes of Panama all to earn a home and home against a very tough team. The hex is way easier and that secondary path is totally unfair. I think Canada would be right in the mix in the hex. This whole format is a joke tbh though... games teams didn't even know were meaningful a couple years ago were crucial.

Well let's hope that ES drops some points this week. It's unlikely but if they lose or draw a game it could still be interesting yet. Pretty much the only hope Canada has.

I think a loss for ES today will put Canada through. A draw and it will be close. I understand if they lose to DR on Tuesday they will be entered into a gold cup qualifying tourney in spring that will count for big points so that makes things even more complicated. A draw tuesday would be OK though. What a format.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:43 AM   #1531
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Does the U.S. getting 4 goals versus say 1 or 2 make this a worse for us in the points totals?
Goals for/against makes no difference. Our 2 remaining hopes for making the hex are:

1. The US somehow falls apart and fails to beat Cuba. This means we'd win the group and get the high value playoff matches in June where we can gain a bunch of points.

2. El Salvador fails to beat Dominican Republic tomorrow. They did take until the 90th minute to score on Montserrat so it's possible. If El Salvador loses we'd be about 10 points up on them which would be nearly impossible to make up with friendlies. If they draw we'd be about 3 points back of them and will need to play and win some friendlies before June.

Note that El Salvador has now clinched their group in Nations League so they automatically qualify for the 2021 Gold Cup and do not get to play qualifiers.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:46 PM   #1532
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What a sham of a qualifying format. Not just because it potentially excludes Canada, but because there should be direct matches to determine the qualifiers. Is Canada better than El Salvador? Maybe. Honduras? Maybe. Let there be a qualifying tournament to know for sure, head to head.

If Canada can't beat El Salvador and/or Honduras in a home and home (or round robin), then so be it. But at least the teams have a chance to settle it directly. I'd rather see Canada lose on a dusty, dried out pitch in Honduras (it has happened) than in math equation.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:39 PM   #1533
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What a sham of a qualifying format. Not just because it potentially excludes Canada, but because there should be direct matches to determine the qualifiers. Is Canada better than El Salvador? Maybe. Honduras? Maybe. Let there be a qualifying tournament to know for sure, head to head.

If Canada can't beat El Salvador and/or Honduras in a home and home (or round robin), then so be it. But at least the teams have a chance to settle it directly. I'd rather see Canada lose on a dusty, dried out pitch in Honduras (it has happened) than in math equation.
Iím sure it got changed for some reason, from the old one, to reward teams that play often, which is why it takes in various competitions.

Correct me if Iím wrong but if the team didnít choke away the multiple goal lead vs Haiti of all teams earlier this year, theyíd be in much better shape.

Or, have the useless governing body of this country have scheduled a few more (and meaningful) friendlies prior to this in the past year and a half since Herdman came on, they also may be in a more comfortable position. As it is, they left little margin for error to get to the Hex.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:52 AM   #1534
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Iím sure it got changed for some reason, from the old one, to reward teams that play often, which is why it takes in various competitions.

Correct me if Iím wrong but if the team didnít choke away the multiple goal lead vs Haiti of all teams earlier this year, theyíd be in much better shape.

Or, have the useless governing body of this country have scheduled a few more (and meaningful) friendlies prior to this in the past year and a half since Herdman came on, they also may be in a more comfortable position. As it is, they left little margin for error to get to the Hex.
While more friendlies is always nice, it's hard to blame Soccer Canada for this one. CONCACAF had previously announced that the World Cup qualifying would use the "CONCACAF Rankings" that they had created which only accounted for games played between CONCACAF teams. This is what Canada was looking at so they thought they were in good shape. The problem is that when the format was actually announced CONCACAF decided to use the July FIFA rankings and this stupid top 6 and then everybody else format. There hasn't really been an opportunity to schedule friendlies since then since Nations League has been the priority (as the games are worth way more).

The Haiti game was a missed opportunity for sure. While we didn't drop any points we missed a chance to pick up a bunch. The other thing that hurt us was drawing a non-FIFA opponent in the Gold Cup (Martinique I think). That is a high value competition where we could have potentially gained a bunch of points.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:59 AM   #1535
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Everything about this system sounds hilarious and dumb

/signed a guy who doesn't pay much attention
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:51 AM   #1536
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Well, I guess we're going to have to do this the hard way. With El Salvador & the US winning yesterday the hex is pretty much locked in.

Code:
Mexico		1621
USA			1540
Costa Rica	1442
Jamaica		1438
Honduras	1377
El Salvador	1346
----------------
Canada		1331
Curacao		1313
Panama		1304
Haiti		1285
T&T			1202
The only remaining international match windows before the draw is done are at the end of March and the start of June. So, we can theoretically play a maximum of 4 friendlies. Assuming that El Salvador does nothing which seems reasonable as they don't want to lose any points we need to get to at least 1346 points. To get an idea of what that takes, 2 wins against the US who are currently ranked #22 in the world would almost do it but wouldn't quite be enough. Beating Belgium who are the world #1 twice would just barely push us over the top.

So that leaves us needing to do the following:

1. Win a group stage with either 2 or 3 other teams ranked 7-35 in CONCACAF
2. Beat one of the other group winners in a 2 leg quarter-final
3. Beat one of the other quarter-final winners in a 2 leg semi-final
4. Beat the other semi-final winner in a 2 leg final
5. Beat the 4th place team from the hex over 2 legs
6. Beat a team from one of the other confederations (Asia, South America or Oceania) over 2 legs.

Good news is we should have lots of games to play for a change. Bad news is it's going to be at least 14 games to get to the World Cup with most of them being must-win.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:17 AM   #1537
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Well, I guess we're going to have to do this the hard way. With El Salvador & the US winning yesterday the hex is pretty much locked in.

Code:
Mexico		1621
USA			1540
Costa Rica	1442
Jamaica		1438
Honduras	1377
El Salvador	1346
----------------
Canada		1331
Curacao		1313
Panama		1304
Haiti		1285
T&T			1202
The only remaining international match windows before the draw is done are at the end of March and the start of June. So, we can theoretically play a maximum of 4 friendlies. Assuming that El Salvador does nothing which seems reasonable as they don't want to lose any points we need to get to at least 1346 points. To get an idea of what that takes, 2 wins against the US who are currently ranked #22 in the world would almost do it but wouldn't quite be enough. Beating Belgium who are the world #1 twice would just barely push us over the top.

So that leaves us needing to do the following:

1. Win a group stage with either 2 or 3 other teams ranked 7-35 in CONCACAF
2. Beat one of the other group winners in a 2 leg quarter-final
3. Beat one of the other quarter-final winners in a 2 leg semi-final
4. Beat the other semi-final winner in a 2 leg final
5. Beat the 4th place team from the hex over 2 legs
6. Beat a team from one of the other confederations (Asia, South America or Oceania) over 2 legs.

Good news is we should have lots of games to play for a change. Bad news is it's going to be at least 14 games to get to the World Cup with most of them being must-win.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but didn't we get something like 17 points when we beat the US in Toronto? I definitely could be wrong on that!

But what a crazy system. You would think that if we were somehow to beat Belgium (and really, why would they bother setting that game with us just to smash us 8-0?) that this would be enough to pass El Salvador. But it's a giant moot point. We can qualify when we host and/or the tournament has 48 teams...hopefully!
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:28 AM   #1538
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I'm not saying you're wrong, but didn't we get something like 17 points when we beat the US in Toronto? I definitely could be wrong on that!

But what a crazy system. You would think that if we were somehow to beat Belgium (and really, why would they bother setting that game with us just to smash us 8-0?) that this would be enough to pass El Salvador. But it's a giant moot point. We can qualify when we host and/or the tournament has 48 teams...hopefully!
The problem is that there is a multiplier for the type of competition and the Nations League game against the US was classed as a "World Cup Qualifier" which is worth 2.5 times as much as a friendly. That's why things like the Gold Cup are so valuable and why it sucked so much to draw Martinique who aren't part of FIFA and thus aren't counted for any points. The Gold Cup is actually worth 3.5 times what a friendly is.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:49 AM   #1539
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The problem is that there is a multiplier for the type of competition and the Nations League game against the US was classed as a "World Cup Qualifier" which is worth 2.5 times as much as a friendly. That's why things like the Gold Cup are so valuable and why it sucked so much to draw Martinique who aren't part of FIFA and thus aren't counted for any points. The Gold Cup is actually worth 3.5 times what a friendly is.
It is strange to me that CONCACAF allows non-FIFA members to participate in the confederation's championship. I can't think of another confederation that does this. I know there are tournaments within other confederations that have had non-FIFA members participate. For example, there's a tournament in Africa called CECAFA which involves east African countries as well as Zanzibar, which competes independently of the country it's actually part of; Tanzania. But Zanzibar doesn't compete in the African Nations Cup, which is CAF's championship. Now that FIFA rankings and its points have such importance when it comes to WCQ, it's time that countries don't get punished for being drawn with the likes of Martinique and Guadeloupe in the Gold Cup, as you point out.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:59 AM   #1540
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It is strange to me that CONCACAF allows non-FIFA members to participate in the confederation's championship. I can't think of another confederation that does this. I know there are tournaments within other confederations that have had non-FIFA members participate. For example, there's a tournament in Africa called CECAFA which involves east African countries as well as Zanzibar, which competes independently of the country it's actually part of; Tanzania. But Zanzibar doesn't compete in the African Nations Cup, which is CAF's championship. Now that FIFA rankings and its points have such importance when it comes to WCQ, it's time that countries don't get punished for being drawn with the likes of Martinique and Guadeloupe in the Gold Cup, as you point out.
Easy counterpoint to that is that if you canít beat clubs and countries not even sanctioned with FIFA, you probably donít belong in FIFAís top championship tournament. And the dreadful result to Haiti isnít far behind, given their FIFA accreditation has to be hanging on by a thread.

The Gold Cup seems to need other teams to fill out numbers for groupings, and that goes both ways. Probably some minnows just canít afford to go, while others can.

Recall when Canada won in 2000 they beat Columbia in the tournament final game, though they were already Concacaf champions after beating T and T in Semis.
And Canada only got through the second round thanks to winning a coin flip over S Korea.
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