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Old 09-29-2020, 07:25 PM   #3201
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Everybody still keen on the idea of facing the Rays?

The Yankees are hitting the Cleveland pitching pretty hard
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:25 PM   #3202
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Such a piss off. So many liners hit right at guys or close enough for them to make amazing plays.....and then they made amazing plays.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:26 PM   #3203
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That's interesting, Shoemaker was only supposed to go two innings
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:27 PM   #3204
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Thank goodness they’re saving pitchers for next season.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:27 PM   #3205
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9 Ks for Snell today in 5 and a 3rd.

Wait until Glasnow gets his teeth into the Jays tomorrow. Dude had 14.3 K/9 this year.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:28 PM   #3206
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That's interesting, Shoemaker was only supposed to go two innings
Which is just another example of a bad pre-determination.

Jays are out-managing themselves.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:34 PM   #3207
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Yeah. I’m shocked at the Sportsnet guys gushing over the strategy. Any way you slice it the guy was pulled too early. You may have had it in mind but let momentum be on your side. Don’t fix something that isn’t broken or doesn’t have signs of breaking. Utterly stupid decision. The bats hopefully will adjust tomorrow.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:35 PM   #3208
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My steak would taste better right now if we'd won
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:36 PM   #3209
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I ask again, when a pitcher is showing no signs of wear, why are you pulling him (as a general rule of thumb)? Surely I’m not blaming Montoyo in forecasting a home run there but there was no need to change the pitcher at the start of the inning with Ray doing well at the end.
Because when they leave in the pitcher and the pitcher gets bombed the fans complain about that too. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. The Jays got 6ip of 1ER ball out of their tandem it’s just their hitters didn’t do the job. If the Jays don’t hit they’re not going to win. You can’t have Bo, Vlad, Teoscar, Grichuk, etc go 0 for.

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Old 09-29-2020, 07:37 PM   #3210
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Yeah. Iím shocked at the Sportsnet guys gushing over the strategy. Any way you slice it the guy was pulled too early. You may have had it in mind but let momentum be on your side. Donít fix something that isnít broken or doesnít have signs of breaking. Utterly stupid decision. The bats hopefully will adjust tomorrow.
I see what you are saying, but I see what they are saying too. They had a plan and it was executed exceptionally. Just because further adjustments would have made it even better doesn't take away from the fact the plan worked exactly how they wanted it to.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:39 PM   #3211
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Rays love letting the Jays beat themselves, brilliant start by Shoemaker who had electric stuff. Teoscar had a rough one, need him to get hot to have any chance.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:39 PM   #3212
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Quote:
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Yeah. Iím shocked at the Sportsnet guys gushing over the strategy. Any way you slice it the guy was pulled too early. You may have had it in mind but let momentum be on your side. Donít fix something that isnít broken or doesnít have signs of breaking. Utterly stupid decision. The bats hopefully will adjust tomorrow.
Yeah, Axford had the balls to criticize it, so they pushed him and pushed him until he relented and agreed that it was a great idea.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:41 PM   #3213
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I see what you are saying, but I see what they are saying too. They had a plan and it was executed exceptionally. Just because further adjustments would have made it even better doesn't take away from the fact the plan worked exactly how they wanted it to.
The plan - to start Shoemaker and then go to Ray - was a great plan. It was a great plan 3 days ago, when they decided to go with them for day 1.

But once the game starts, you have to manage the game. And they didn't do that.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:46 PM   #3214
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Because when they leave in the pitcher and the pitcher gets bombed the fans complain about that too. Damned if you do fanned if you donít. The Jays got 6ip of 1ER ball out of their tandem itís just their hitters didnít do the job. If the Jays donít hit theyíre not going to win. You canít have Bo, Vlad, Teoscar, Grichuk, etc go 0 for.
No one is going to (validly) criticize them for leaving in a pitcher who has mowed them down through 3 innings.

And yes, the offense let them down. However, maybe they aren't swinging for the fences if it's 1-1 instead of 3-1
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:47 PM   #3215
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The plan to manage the game is what leads to things like stats like third time through an order. There is a very strong statistical evidence on how starters do worse their second and third time through the order. Managing the game just means you’re going to walk into those. So knowing that teams are going to avoid that, even if some eyetest says they should be left in.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:49 PM   #3216
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The plan - to start Shoemaker and then go to Ray - was a great plan. It was a great plan 3 days ago, when they decided to go with them for day 1.

But once the game starts, you have to manage the game. And they didn't do that.
Those are two separate things though. The plan was these guys to pitch 6 innings nad give up very little offense. They accomplished that, thus the plan was successful. It's that simple.

Yes, the in-game adjustments could have been better, but that doesn't take away from the fact the plan worked exactly how they wanted it to.

Going into this game if you were told Shoemaker and Ray will give up a combined 3 hits and 1 run, you'd be thrilled. But instead because Shoemaker might have had a good 4th inning, you are complaining about the plans and saying it wasn't executed.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:50 PM   #3217
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If we were talking third time through the order, it would be easier to accept. But we aren't.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:52 PM   #3218
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Those are two separate things though. The plan was these guys to pitch 6 innings nad give up very little offense. They accomplished that, thus the plan was successful. It's that simple.

Yes, the in-game adjustments could have been better, but that doesn't take away from the fact the plan worked exactly how they wanted it to.

Going into this game if you were told Shoemaker and Ray will give up a combined 3 hits and 1 run, you'd be thrilled. But instead because Shoemaker might have had a good 4th inning, you are complaining about the plans and saying it wasn't executed.
Again - the PLAN was good. It was the correct plan. GOING INTO THE GAME.

But you have to manage the game. You have to be able to adjust plans on the fly. That is literally what managing is. But they didn't do that. Saying "if you were told..." is a just a weak justification after the fact.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:53 PM   #3219
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No one is going to (validly) criticize them for leaving in a pitcher who has mowed them down through 3 innings.

And yes, the offense let them down. However, maybe they aren't swinging for the fences if it's 1-1 instead of 3-1
Which has nothing to do with the starter plan since it was their reliever who gave up the home run. Itís fairly irrelevant that a pitcher mows someone down for 3ip, especially in regards to pitchers like Shoemaker and Ray. We all know how quickly those two can just collapse. Ray most of the time itís a toss up if heíll walk the bases loaded any given inning.

They likely saw their tandem got them to the 7th with only 1 run and bring in their best bullpen pitchers. It didnít work out but Iíd much rather bet on one of the bullpen pitching clean innings than Ray imploding at any given point. Shoemaker well he was coming off an injury and only one appearance before this so itís good he got 3ip.
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Old 09-29-2020, 07:56 PM   #3220
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The reliever gave up the home run because the starting tandem, Shoemaker/Ray were out sooner than they needed to be.
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