A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I posted a link somewhere ITT.

Not sure if the season 8 episode lengths were confirmed but it was expected that pretty much every episode would be around 90 minutes or “feature length”.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I posted a link somewhere ITT.

Not sure if the season 8 episode lengths were confirmed but it was expected that pretty much every episode would be around 90 minutes or “feature length”.

If that's the case I can live with the wait. This series deserves a grand send-off.

[Nyah]

This link has a funny Doritos/Mountain Dew commercial that I'm assuming is for Super Bowl that has a Fire & Ice theme, it's really well done. As well as an interview with Lena Headey on what it was like reading the final script with the rest of the cast.

https://mashable.com/2018/01/30/pete...1#wCZaGNMIasqm

Not much for news, but enough to bump the thread back up and pretend that it's still not a year + away.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

As it is nearing the usual GoT premiere time, I decided to rewatch season 7. Haven't seen them except when they originally aired.

In hindsight, I liked the first 3 or 4 episodes a lot. With the exception of a few minor details about pacing and the order of events (like Jon being in Dragonstone for 3 episodes before they even mention the dragonglass, let alone start mining it). However the oversights in timing weren't a huge deal. I'm ok with imagining that some things were shown a bit out of order to make sure that the overall flow of the story was maintained.

But where it really falls apart is when Dany decides to go after Casterly Rock and Cersei tricks her and takes Highgarden. I was ok with the timing and maneuvering in the show, like Euron catching them off guard twice, it's the aftermath.

Ok so Tyrion is going to go to King's Landing to recruit Jaime and Cersei because...wait why exactly? Dany says she can't help Jon because of the "war" with Cersei, in which they've fought exactly zero battles. So even if Dany leaves to go help Jon in the North, what exactly happens in the South? She gives up Dragonstone? It is impenetrable, she could easily leave a skeleton crew to protect it. She gives up Casterly Rock? Who cares it was stripped of all resources before the Lannister troops left.

So what in the hell is she talking about? There is no war. There have been no battles, except Euron attacking Yara and Greyworm's ships.

Then we get to Jon wanting Cersei's help with the whitewalkers. This part doesn't make a lot of sense because Jon took such a huge risk for no reason. The entire trek north was all on a whim that Cersei couldn't deny the evidence. She's been a crazy #### for 6 previous seasons, but now she'll see the light. Ok then. Would have made more sense if it was Jaime they were trying to convince to turn on his sister.

But the attraction of these events was clear for the writers. They wanted Jon and his friends in a battle up north, they wanted a reason to have a dragon get killed and they wanted a reason to have a big meeting between Cersei, Dany et al. Not to mention that time in episodes 5/6 becomes completely meaningless. To the point where it is insulting to the viewer. Before they were taking liberties for the sake of storytelling, this however was egregious.

I didn't watch episode 7 yet. Few years down the road when this series is finished and we're looking back on it, I think these episodes will be one of the lower points of the series.

[Zevo]

Constantly amazed how much some of you overthink this show. It's a mindless GCI fantasy series that has whitewalkers, dire wolves, giants, witches that birth shadow killers, etc, etc.

I wouldn't notice any of these things if I didn't read them on-line. I turn off my brain and basically relive my old stoner D and D playing days on TV, and it's glorious.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

It's actually too bad that anyone thinks GoT is the TV equivalent of Transformers but with nudity and whitewalkers.

I mean, good on the showrunners for making a tv show that appeals to people on multiple levels but the old "oh it has to be dumb because it isn't 100% realisitic" is a tired excuse.

The only reason this show is on TV in the first place is because the books were not mindless fantasy tropes. So when the show does devolve into that, it should be obvious why people are critical. Otherwise I'd just watch Once Upon a Time.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Constantly amazed how much some of you overthink this show. It's a mindless GCI fantasy series that has whitewalkers, dire wolves, giants, witches that birth shadow killers, etc, etc.

I wouldn't notice any of these things if I didn't read them on-line. I turn off my brain and basically relive my old stoner D and D playing days on TV, and it's glorious.

I mean, that's really not fair. Before this last season, the show was designed to make you think. Characters and plotlines were connected and twisted across several seasons. The very first episode planted seeds that still haven't bloomed.

Just because the series is now about CGI dragons, whitewalkers, etc., doesn't mean that's what it was, or what it should be.

[GGG]

I think the Criticisms of season 7 are the reason the books aren't done yet. It's hard to write a fulfilling conclusion without making a few of these types of plot advancing maneuvers.

I think Martin is stuck and likely had a very similar outline to what was done by the show runners. He now has the opportunity to make things better but I'm not sure a different set of arbitrary decisions makes it a better show.

I do think things are well set up for the last season though as the board is well set up to not require the arbitrary nature of the moves seen last season.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Constantly amazed how much some of you overthink this show. It's a mindless GCI fantasy series that has whitewalkers, dire wolves, giants, witches that birth shadow killers, etc, etc.

I wouldn't notice any of these things if I didn't read them on-line. I turn off my brain and basically relive my old stoner D and D playing days on TV, and it's glorious.

Some of us read the books first, and those are definitely not just schlock action stories. Martin takes tremendous care trying to make the political and military manoeuvring intelligent and plausible. The first four seasons of the TV show dumbed the books down a little. The latest ones are dumbing the books down a lot.

Maybe I have high expectations, but sometimes I expect to be entertained without shutting my brain off.

[Inglewood Jack]

if you're expected to turn your brain off for every movie or TV show that isn't 100% based on normal reality, then how do you even tell what's good or not? the quality of the special effects? size of explosions? usage of slow motion sequences? number of pop culture references per hour?

that whole argument about how fantasy elements are a free pass for everything else needs to die. I don't understand why it's so persistent when we've been shown you can have a solid story and characters to go along with your eye candy. do they still do that in video games, where it's rated only by resolution and fps?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Constantly amazed how much some of you overthink this show. It's a mindless GCI fantasy series that has whitewalkers, dire wolves, giants, witches that birth shadow killers, etc, etc.

I wouldn't notice any of these things if I didn't read them on-line. I turn off my brain and basically relive my old stoner D and D playing days on TV, and it's glorious.

Constantly amazed that someone with this opinion actually watches GOT.

[Zevo]

For what it's worth I've read the books and really enjoyed them. I thought they were generally very well written. I also really enjoy the TV series but lets not pretend the novels and the show on HBO done by different writers are the same thing. They aren't including the gratuitous nudity because it's essential to the plot.

I don't think anyone wanted the tv show to follow in the same foot steps as the 4th book. That was a slog to get through and almost made me stop reading the series. I like that they made the show more exiting and larger than life. I don't care that some things don't match up or that there is no way a guy can swim that far under water in full armor. The trade off is it's not dragging like the novels started to at one point.

TV shows and movies never compare to the books.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

But the attraction of these events was clear for the writers. They wanted Jon and his friends in a battle up north, they wanted a reason to have a dragon get killed and they wanted a reason to have a big meeting between Cersei, Dany et al. Not to mention that time in episodes 5/6 becomes completely meaningless. To the point where it is insulting to the viewer. Before they were taking liberties for the sake of storytelling, this however was egregious.

I just finished watching episodes 5 and 6, and I pretty much have to turn my brain off entirely in order to watch the show at this point.

• Jaime holds his breath underwater long enough for a battle to end and an army to be marched off into captivity.
  
• Dany can't leave Dragonstone because of reasons... until she can.
  
• Characters essentially teleport from any city to another instantly, despite several seasons and stories build around the premise that this is a huge world that it takes a long time to travel across.
  
• Ten characters leave Eastwatch on the mission beyond the wall - you can count them in several scenes, and there are clearly ten: the seven named characters and three red-shirts. Bear kills three redshirts. And then the white walkers kill another. And another. And another. Where are all these red-shirts coming from? They seem to just appear out of the ether whenever the show runners think it would be cool to show one getting killed.
  
• The expedition beyond the wall see a bunch of walkers so they send Gendry back to Eastwatch while they... set off rapidly in the opposite direction? WTF? Where are they going? Why don't they go back to Eastwatch together? Or at least head in the same direction while Gendry runs ahead.
  
• And how far are they from Eastwatch at that point? I assumed it was days of travel, maybe a week. But Gendry manages it in what looks like an hour or two.
  
• Arya's childhood resentment of Sansa has become venemous distrust and hatred, to the point of behaving incredibly foolishly, because... it's dramatic. No other reason. The conflict between the two is completely contrived and makes no sense.
  
• Sansa doesn't want to go to King's Landing for a diplomatic meeting, so in her place she sends the highly-regarded Northern negotiator and diplomat... Brienne of Tarth!

I think you're right that at this point the writers think of cool cinematic scenes, and employ whatever contrivance they need to in order to make it happen, without given any thought to whether it makes sense or is consistent with how the world and series has been set up previously. I'm half-expecting a climatic battle scene in Season 8 where six or seven dragons get in a wild battle, because think of how kewl it would look. If that means the viewers have to ignore that we've been told for seven years that there are only three dragons, well this is just supposed to be a fun lark of a show, so whatevs.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Zevo

For what it's worth I've read the books and really enjoyed them. I thought they were generally very well written. I also really enjoy the TV series but lets not pretend the novels and the show on HBO done by different writers are the same thing. They aren't including the gratuitous nudity because it's essential to the plot.

I don't think anyone wanted the tv show to follow in the same foot steps as the 4th book. That was a slog to get through and almost made me stop reading the series. I like that they made the show more exiting and larger than life. I don't care that some things don't match up or that there is no way a guy can swim that far under water in full armor. The trade off is it's not dragging like the novels started to at one point.

TV shows and movies never compare to the books.

A Feast for Crows was easily the worst novel I ever read. Really terrible. Luckily the show runners agreed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

A Feast for Crows was easily the worst novel I ever read. Really terrible. Luckily the show runners agreed.

I'll see your 'Feast for Crows' and raise you 'The Silmarillion.'

A book I have picked up countless times and put right back down. I doubt I've ever even made it half-way.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I just finished watching episodes 5 and 6, and I pretty much have to turn my brain off entirely in order to watch the show at this point.

Etc

On at least a couple of points you may want to watch episode 7before passing judgement.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by ernie

On at least a couple of points you may want to watch episode 7before passing judgement.

The Sansa and Arya thing doesn't make sense even with the payoff in ep 7.

Like why would Arya still threaten to kill Sansa in private? We were given no indication Littlefinger was watching them. It was weird how private their disagreements were if the intention was to fool littlefinger. They made no effort to do it publicly and mislead him.

Then it turns out they were working together? Or did they actually hate each other and only figure it out after in a scene that was never shown to us?

It was handled very poorly. The payoff was satisfying because we all wanted to see littlefinger get his comeuppance but the way it all played out was outlandish.

And that doesn't even take into account Bran. He participated in the "trial" of Littlefinger but didn't discuss with his sister's the whole situation? Or he did and we just didn't see it? I know he's weird now but he's distant, perhaps a bit overwhelmed, not stupid.

[ernie]

Little finger is almost always watching... I don’t think you need to explicitly see him or his informants over looking a scene to know that it’s going on at this point.

I see things differently. When Arya returns the sisters actually have a pretty tender conversation in the tombs. It’s there that Arya learns what has been in sansaks heart. She hated Joffrey and wished she could have killed him for instance. Arya truthfully says being Lady Stark or whatever suits her, That was in private where it is unlikely there were listeners. The interactions the next couple of episodes between the two don’t feel genuine because of that meeting IMO. And they weren’t genuine.

Little finger doesn’t take the bait to plant the incriminating note Sansa sent to Robb until after what is a fake argument which centered around Sansa assuming the lady winterfell role and how that offended Arya etc. the exact opposite of what truly happened in a private conversation. They tricked Littlefinger into making the move. The second very public argument centered around the letter where she asks Rob to bend a knee to her loving and great husband Joffrey. Again, in the true private conversation when Arya first arrives Sansa makes it clear she hated Joffrey and wanted him dead.

At that point while in a staged diasagreement Arya also provides the dagger to Sansa (perhaps actions mean more than words being said) and Sansa continues to destabilize Littlefinger by ignoring advice and sending Brienne away.

[Inglewood Jack]

maybe this is what the intent of that story line was, but that's an awful lot of extra script writing you just did on behalf of the screenwriters.

[EldrickOnIce]

I thought that was obvious, once it played itself out lol. One never knows when Littlefinger is watching/listening. There are probably dozens of times throughout the show where Sansa looks one way or another to spot him lurking/watching/listening in the shadows. No need to hit us over the head with something we can figure, albeit after the fact.