Well, yeah. I don't care if someone else exactly like me has those experiences. I want those experiences.
that's if your real and virtual minds exist at the same time. long as you shut off the flesh bag after the download, you get to enjoy your VR immortality and not have to worry about what your other self is doing.
now if things get really Black Mirrorish and there's copies of you everywhere, then that gets murky real fast. with my luck I'd probably get stuck in the one simulation where the Oilers are perennial cup champions...or dammit am I already living in a version where the team I cheer for is doomed to perpetual mediocrity?
that's if your real and virtual minds exist at the same time. long as you shut off the flesh bag after the download, you get to enjoy your VR immortality and not have to worry about what your other self is doing.
now if things get really Black Mirrorish and there's copies of you everywhere, then that gets murky real fast. with my luck I'd probably get stuck in the one simulation where the Oilers are perennial cup champions...or dammit am I already living in a version where the team I cheer for is doomed to perpetual mediocrity?
But how do you transfer your 'self' (active consciousness) to a machine? If they co-exist as separate and distinct, they are separate and distinct regardless. You can't just automatically switch to the other when you biologically die.
Once the brain dies, you cease to exist.
A copy is a separate continuance. True immortality can only exist if you can find a way to keep your brain functioning and then connect it to a virtual world, or transplant it into another biological or synthetic vessel.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
But how do you transfer your 'self' (active consciousness) to a machine? If they co-exist as separate and distinct, they are separate and distinct regardless. You can't just automatically switch to the other when you biologically die.
Once the brain dies, you cease to exist.
A copy is a separate continuance. True immortality can only exist if you can find a way to keep your brain functioning and then connect it to a virtual world, or transplant it into another biological or synthetic vessel.
Interesting sentiment, I think there is a well established philosophical basis for completely changing something without change its specific property of being. Tell me how many of current your arm cells existed with your body a few years ago? The answer is of course 0, but you still consider it the same arm.
While brain cells are not typically replaced. Would it really be all that different if you got into more of an Altered Carbon, cybernetic scenario?
What if they cybernetics are seamlessly integrated into the biological cells, constantly copying and interacting with the living cells, replacing them as they die?
What is it is one cell at a time, maybe few dozen an hour over the course of dozens of years, without a loss in continuity?
At what point do you draw the line between biological, cybernetic & synthetic?
The Following User Says Thank You to #-3 For This Useful Post:
Interesting sentiment, I think there is a well established philosophical basis for completely changing something without change its specific property of being. Tell me how many of current your arm cells existed with your body a few years ago? The answer is of course 0, but you still consider it the same arm.
While brain cells are not typically replaced. Would it really be all that different if you got into more of an Altered Carbon, cybernetic scenario?
What if they cybernetics are seamlessly integrated into the biological cells, constantly copying and interacting with the living cells, replacing them as they die?
What is it is one cell at a time, maybe few dozen an hour over the course of dozens of years, without a loss in continuity?
At what point do you draw the line between biological, cybernetic & synthetic?
The ship of Theseus thought experiment. That's tough, because it's a simple concept in a much more complex scenario. I suppose it all depends on where you theorize personal identity exists. For me, it resides in the mind...which is the brain.
I suppose if you could maintain biological function while integrating synthetic components there is more leeway. I still think that you need to retain certain core biological brain functions (which of those might be I do not know) in order to maintain consciousness.
Either way, how they are portraying it in the show, and Altered Carbon, IMO, isn't a true transition. The Ford in season 2 isn't the same Ford in season 1, for example. It is a distinct digital copy.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
The Following User Says Thank You to Yamer For This Useful Post:
I was assuming a simplified scenario where the rule of transferring to the digital world is that you agree to have your physical form rendered obsolete the moment your VR self wakes up, or at least keep them synced and never have them function simultaneously. but yes, if you have two exact duplicate minds then they start becoming more distinct with each moment that both are conscious separately.
digital Ford says that duplicate minds in the real world still don't work, but he's able to stay sane as long as he remains all digital. that's why I think the Forge was built for digital immortality, since they never seemed to solve the problem of degrading inside a host.
The Following User Says Thank You to Inglewood Jack For This Useful Post:
I was assuming a simplified scenario where the rule of transferring to the digital world is that you agree to have your physical form rendered obsolete the moment your VR self wakes up, or at least keep them synced and never have them function simultaneously. but yes, if you have two exact duplicate minds then they start becoming more distinct with each moment that both are conscious separately.
digital Ford says that duplicate minds in the real world still don't work, but he's able to stay sane as long as he remains all digital. that's why I think the Forge was built for digital immortality, since they never seemed to solve the problem of degrading inside a host.
I come from a viewpoint that there is no continuity from a biological to digital/synthetic host. Who we are and what we experience and perceive is located in the brain. Our CPU. I think, theoretically, there might be a way to map and recreate that, but it would just be a copy. One that diverges at the point the copy is made.
So in this scenario, you can agree to die while your copy lives on. Essentially, the concept and presentation of "you" as a person still exists, but you as a conscious, thinking, experiencing being ends. I would never pay money for that personally, nor would I actually be interested in having that technology available. But that's all due to my belief on who I am and how I continue to exist. Clone Yamer wouldn't be me, he would be his own independent, distinct, thinking, and self-aware being with shared personality traits and memories.
I think it's super interesting that the show presents this degradation of duplicated minds in the real world, but survives in the digital. And I like that they can't explain it. Frankly, I would be OK if they never resolve that in the show. It's fun thinking about this kind of stuff.
The Forge/Valley/whatever is the ends of a vain and wholly misunderstood way to live forever.
__________________ "It's a great day for hockey."
-'Badger' Bob Johnson (1931-1991)
"I see as much misery out of them moving to justify theirselves as them that set out to do harm." -Dr. Amos "Doc" Cochran
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Yamer For This Useful Post:
When you watch the finale make sure to watch past the credits. I know I would have shut it off if I hadn’t been dinking around on my phone. That is all.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ResAlien For This Useful Post:
I figured that was the finale. They should have just made it the finale.
They've planned 5 seasons. With the last scene it's way way into the future apparently. Maybe it takes place after the Delorapocalypse and MIB's been brought back to deal with that?
Some fun surprises in this finale. Maybe the geniuses on the internet already had it all figured out but I was genuinely surprised a couple times there. The timeline shifting is obviously supposed to be difficult to follow, but it definitely makes the show interesting to watch. Lots of unanswered questions to resolve in the show, and with such a large turnover in the cast happening for Season 3 it'll be interesting to see where this goes.
I stopped watching after episode 3, as I had completely lost track of characters, motivation, story, etc. Would an end of season binge be a good idea? Is it possible that everything would finally make sense if I just watched all of it over a week?
Honestly, probably. There are a lot of little bits that you forget week over week (even with the recaps) that a binge would make everything much more cohesive (but less surprising).
I re-watched S1 in a binge about a month before S2 premiered and I noticed a lot of threads connecting that I didn't grab the first time.
Really enjoyed S2's strong end, even if the season meandered a bit in the middle. A lot of heartstrings pulled this season and I thought they gave just the right time, tone and gravity to the parts that matter without drawing them out so much that they come across as saccharine.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PsYcNeT For This Useful Post:
