The Canadian Men's Soccer Team Thread

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Tosaint Ricketts moved to Israel's Hapoel Haifa on a two year deal:
http://translate.google.com/translat...2559&sandbox=1

Fifa has lots of issues... doesn't mean they can't fix nationality rules too, they have been a joke for too long, even worse now that they let people switch even after representing another country at u-20 competitions.

They need to up the residency requirement and ditch ancestry rules that allow people to play for countries they've never been to asap.

I take a lot of exception to those comments. As a Canadian father of 2 boys born in the US, I (as does the Canadian government) consider them Canadian citizens. Just because I decided to live in the same country as their mother doesn't mean that they should be any less Canadian and undeserving of deciding to play for Canada if they chose to. You should be able to represent the country you are a citizen of regardless of whether you lived there growing up.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I take a lot of exception to those comments. As a Canadian father of 2 boys born in the US, I (as does the Canadian government) consider them Canadian citizens. Just because I decided to live in the same country as their mother doesn't mean that they should be any less Canadian and undeserving of deciding to play for Canada if they chose to. You should be able to represent the country you are a citizen of regardless of whether you lived there growing up.

Having a passport/being a citizen doesn't allow you to represent that country (FIFA rules). You need to have lived there for a minimum of 5 years as well or satisfy their ancestry rules... I believe there are a couple of players in Canada right now who have Canadian citizenship from playing for our MLS teams but aren't eligible to suit up for the CMNT because they haven't lived in Canada for five years.

I respect that you consider your kids Canadian and would never argue their right to Canadian citizenship, holding a Canadian passport, have the right to live here in the future etc etc but I can't agree that someone who has never lived in a country should be playing for it's national teams. To me that defeats the whole purpose of international representative sport, just my opinion anyway.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Having a passport/being a citizen doesn't allow you to represent that country (FIFA rules). You need to have lived there for a minimum of 5 years as well or satisfy their ancestry rules... I believe there are a couple of players in Canada right now who have Canadian citizenship from playing for our MLS teams but aren't eligible to suit up for the CMNT because they haven't lived in Canada for five years.

I respect that you consider your kids Canadian and would never argue their right to Canadian citizenship, holding a Canadian passport, have the right to live here in the future etc etc but I can't agree that someone who has never lived in a country should be playing for it's national teams. To me that defeats the whole purpose of international representative sport, just my opinion anyway.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think a born citizen of a country, born to a Canadian father who was only on a temporary work permit at the time should be fully able to represent that country if he desires to. I guess Canada is the on the short end of that stick more often than not. In the US, it seems to go both ways with the armed services people having kids growing up all over the world and playing for the US, while losing some too. It would seem pretty unfair to not allow a child born to an overseas armed service person to not play for their country because their parents were overseas working for their country.

It also seems that most of the soccer development is done by private clubs that are not really very related to their national soccer association. So I don't really see the obligation to play for the country where you developed.

[Flamenspiel]

This is not just a Canadian problem. Most of the Algerian team was born in France and trained in French funded soccer schools. 5 or 6 teams had their own Brazilian players and the Americans had 6 German players so there is an international battle going on to recruit national team players. The German team in the finals has at least two polish players and three Turks.

These players are like free agents that need to be convinced. Perhaps Canada needs go on the offensive and start naturalizing and recruiting players to our teams.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think a born citizen of a country, born to a Canadian father who was only on a temporary work permit at the time should be fully able to represent that country if he desires to. I guess Canada is the on the short end of that stick more often than not. In the US, it seems to go both ways with the armed services people having kids growing up all over the world and playing for the US, while losing some too. It would seem pretty unfair to not allow a child born to an overseas armed service person to not play for their country because their parents were overseas working for their country.

It also seems that most of the soccer development is done by private clubs that are not really very related to their national soccer association. So I don't really see the obligation to play for the country where you developed.

Yes respectfully disagree and feel you are entitled to that position. I feel strongly that in order to represent a country internationally, at a minimum you should have lived there for a while and have a personal connection. Maybe it comes down to the way I self define but I don't accept that where my parents are from or what they did in their life is anything more than my heritage, it isn't and has never been my life, it is theirs. Kids of foreign service are an anomaly but it is an interesting point of debate.

My whole beef with FIFA on this is that there are two sets of rules for different types of citizens basically... You have to live in a country for 5 years to represent them if you are an immigrant even if you have citizenship. Yet if someone acquired citizenship through a parent you don't even have to set foot in that country. It is a double standard that basically relegates the first generation immigrants to second tier national status in a pretty illogical way when they might have more of a connection to that country than the descendant.

It should be citizenship or residency full stop so it's fair and equal for everybody (and you know which one I support myself).

And to me it's not about just picking a system that will help Canada win... I think international soccer is becoming more and more of a joke in the globalization era. The north african countries that spiel referenced are a good example and some of the mideast teams like Qatar are exploiting the system even worse. Up the residency requirement to 10 years or the country you've spent the most years residing in and throw ancestry out the window and it would clean it up instantly.

[lazypucker]

Originally Posted by Matty81

... You have to live in a country for 5 years to represent them if you are an immigrant even if you have citizenship. Yet if someone acquired citizenship through a parent you don't even have to set foot in that country. ..

I think you are incorrect here. I think as long as you have a passport then you can represent the country (of course you haven't represent other countries at the senior level). I recalled many instances where governments rushed passport applications for players (e.g. Olisedabe for Poland, and countless other lower-level Brazilian and British players play for the likes of Hong Kong and other minnows).

What actually stupid is the Olympic rule where athletes can switch representing countries anytime they want to. So you sometimes see the likes of Saudi's and Qatar buying athletes to get medals...

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

I think you are incorrect here. I think as long as you have a passport then you can represent the country (of course you haven't represent other countries at the senior level). I recalled many instances where governments rushed passport applications for players (e.g. Olisedabe for Poland, and countless other lower-level Brazilian and British players play for the likes of Hong Kong and other minnows).

What actually stupid is the Olympic rule where athletes can switch representing countries anytime they want to. So you sometimes see the likes of Saudi's and Qatar buying athletes to get medals...

Nope, they changed it in 2008... used to be 2 years, they upped it to 5 but exempted ancestry people:

example:
http://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news/a...-switch/154158
and here is a summary of all the rules:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_eligibility_rules

[shermanator]

Here's a good article on Canada and our struggles to get back to the World Cup

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...ampaign=Unpaid

[shermanator]

Remember Caniggia Elva? Well, he has signed a 4 year deal with VFB Stuttgart on his 18th birthday.

Alberta Soccer‏@AlbertaSoccer8 mins
Congratulations Caniggia! "@figosmom: And it's a done deal! Pro contract signed today for 4 years. Such a proud day pic.twitter.com/kJY1C3tNFX"

[Arsenal14]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Remember Caniggia Elva? Well, he has signed a 4 year deal with VFB Stuttgart on his 18th birthday.

As a fan of Arsenal and Canadian soccer I was hoping he'd sign at Arsenal, but it's probably better for his career to go to Germany. The top Premier League teams really don't have a lot of playing time available for younger players and with the reserve/youth teams not playing in the pyramid it's tough to gain quality experience. Playing in Germany will also get around the UK work permit issues.

Hopefully he gets his immigration issues which were keeping him from playing internationally sorted and we can see him playing for Canada in the next Gold Cup.

[shermanator]

I'm reading on the Voyageurs board that Marco Bustos was cut from the Chile U-20 roster. Chile had to cut from 22 to 20, and Bustos didn't make it.

I guess we will see if he accepts a Canada U-20 call up for the Milk Cup.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Here's a good article on Canada and our struggles to get back to the World Cup

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...ampaign=Unpaid

In the article, it mentions that the CSA commissioned a study on the feasibility of a national league. The study found that while a national league was not feasible at the time, a national division comprised of regional leagues similar to the CHL would be more suitable.

With travel most likely still an issue today, would football have a better chance of getting results from collaborating with CHL owners instead of CFL owners?

[Johnny199r]

The cfl nasl canadian league partnership looks promising. Add to the fact that vancouver has announced a usl pro team, and to toronto will likely do the same for next year, more kids are able to get a taste of a pro environment which is good news for any diamonds in the rough out there.

[shermanator]

A couple of podcasts from the last week have given more information on what the aim of this new CSA / NASL / CFL / TSN based Canadian Soccer League might shape up to be. I've listened to the first podcast but not the second and it sounds like this is a league that wants to develop Canadians, but also be sustainable, which means the league will increase it's Canadian content over time.

First, John McGrane's interview with Totera (John McGrane works with Bob Young's - Hamilton prospective owner): (36 minute mark)

http://www.nextsportstar.com/index.p...ugust-19-2014/

Second, Steven Sandor's interview on the Ultras alive podcast:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/soccers...tras-alive-145

And some highlights from folks who listened to the duration of both podcasts, copied from the Voyageurs board:

From Totera's

- He's had talks with prospective owners
- No football lines on the pitch
- Manadated that turf will have paintable lines like Hamilton, Ottawa, Saskatchewan
- Calgary and Edmonton need new turf
- TV production needs to be high
- Praises CFL for having high TV production while competing with inferior product to NFL
- Need to have best practices for TV production from around the world brought to CL - "TV is everything"
- No ethnic names for teams - make sure it's professional and relevant to the Canadian market
- Affiliation with clubs globally is a possbility but no ethnic names - mentions Europe & South America
- There will be a salary cap - similar to MLS' current cap
- DP will not be a part of the picture from the beginning - run like a business not a "philanthropic adventure"
- Ownership will consist of individuals with high 8+ figure net worth - my example $80,000,000
- Expect 5-6 years of substantial losses. 10 year plan for turnaround.
- Canadian player pool is too shallow to have high Canadian starters quota
- 1 to 2 mandated canadian starters at first - needs roundtable discussion - increase over time
- Don't want to kill the product through player content rules

From Sandor's

- The CSA partnering with Traffic Sports is a good for the CSA's push for the WC 2026
- Traffic Sports owns NASL teams, is a major operations contributor to league, are media baron in South America, and are player agents
- Traffic sports has a lot of clout in CONCACAF which could improve Canada's chances for the World Cup
- Traffic owns the media rights for the NASL and presumably see the chance with the CSA for their 2026 bid for the WC rights
- The CSA has worked very hard with FIFA on the bid and has climbed the ladder by holding various successful FIFA tournaments
- The division 1A is not tied to the bid but it increases its viability if we have a league
- The american hosts were concerned about it creating instability and the league taking on too much
- Happen within 2 years - same as what John McGrane said
- It works for NASL because the CSA can sanction NASL as division 1 pushing the discussion with MLS
- CSA/NASL/CFL Owners/TSN are all involved
- Per capita Canada's viewership of the World Cup is double that of the USA
- 4 CFL owners suppose to be involved - Calgary, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Saskatchewan - same as John McGrane
- Whispers out of Victoria that the highlanders want to be in NASL.
- No teams rumored from Quebec or Maritimes
- The idea is not to force TFC, VWC, or Impact to leave MLS but make the league enticing enough to join it over time
- Brought up the Canadian non-domestic designation as one of the motivations to make this division
- Self-fulfilling prophecy of Canada dropping in World Ranking and player Canadian player image abroad looking for jobs
- Example Paul Hamilton - 2 years ago was Starting 11 for NASL - now out of pro soccer. Limited options bc international status
- NASL has learned about making announcements before they were solidified - that's why its quiet.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by shermanator

A couple of podcasts from the last week have given more information on what the aim of this new CSA / NASL / CFL / TSN based Canadian Soccer League might shape up to be. I've listened to the first podcast but not the second and it sounds like this is a league that wants to develop Canadians, but also be sustainable, which means the league will increase it's Canadian content over time.

QI.

Thanks for the links and summary!

[shermanator]

Canada plays Jamaica tonight at BMO Field. Game is at 5:30 pm MST on Sportsnet One. I suggest everyone check it out and we can see how well (or how not well) the team has progressed under Floro.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Canada plays Jamaica tonight at BMO Field. Game is at 5:30 pm MST on Sportsnet One. I suggest everyone check it out and we can see how well (or how not well) the team has progressed under Floro.

We're ranked 122, right between Guinea-Bissau and Central African Republic.

I suspect a slaughtering is coming our way.

[Jimmy Stang]

Jamaica is no powerhouse at 85th, but I also have fairly low expectations for Canada. Either way, it'll be an important measuring stick against another CONCACAF nation.

[GirlySports]

i'm fully expecting a 0-0 draw.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

i'm fully expecting a 0-0 draw.

I think that Canada would gladly take that. But I'm hoping that they might actually score a goal or two. Crazy talk, I know.