The Deal With Geoff Ward

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

once this is has been proven to be true, either by finally hiring a proven coach for at least one season or summoning the ghost of Al Arbour to haunt the bench, then I will gladly drive each member of this core to the airport one by one. until then, we'll never know for sure.

Exactly, hire a good coach and if the team still plays like junk I'll admit the core needs to be changed. Enough of these bargain bin signings. The Dallas series should have been enough to tell Treliving to not give him the full-time job.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Gallant and Boudreau still sitting there, and we stuck with the guy who tossed an ice cold goalie who hadn't played in months straight into the middle of an elimination game.

Reaping what they sow.

That should have been the tipping point, off season firing.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The man has been head coach in the NHL for a grand total of 52 regular season hockey games.

52.

Im not sold he is the guy that should be here, but i do know that there is simply far to little data to know, for sure, one way or the other. Particularly when we know that the majority of the core of this roster has been constant throughout 3 head coaches now. 4 to a lesser extent.

Niether one of his seasons have been any where near to "normal" of his tenure either. He took over under difficult circumstances and with COVID they have continued.

I think he should at least be given a chance, even if the early returns aren't as promising as one would hope. Every good, and bad, coach has had poor streaks in their careers.

Patience is a virtue sometimes, and since nothing will change as far as coaching and management until at least the "summer"....may as well see if it gets better or not before going off the deep end.

That is the problem. Why is a team that is supposed to be in contending years hiring a coach with no experience? This isn't the time to be a training ground for new faces, its a time for experience and expectations.

[SuperMatt18]

Of the coaches who contracts are known by Cap Friendly the Flames are spending the least on their head coach.

https://www.capfriendly.com/coaches

I don't know if it's the GM'S theory, or if this is something that ownership mandates, but it's clear that this organization has a tendency to cheap out on coaches in recent years.

Troy Brouwer's buyout makes more for the next two seasons than our head coach does.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I really like Huska and these comments. The mentality of committed athletes is to overcome obstacles. High performance athletes thrive in environments created by coaches like this I believe. It's basically here's how we improve. Top notch. Compare that to fan and media bluster (myself included). All these guys in the NHL mentally are in top 1% - compare this to GT and PGT haha.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1357818931939995648

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I really like Huska and these comments. The mentality of committed athletes is to overcome obstacles. High performance athletes thrive in environments created by coaches like this I believe. It's basically here's how we improve. Top notch. Compare that to fan and media bluster (myself included). All these guys in the NHL mentally are in top 1% - compare this to GT and PGT haha.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1357818931939995648

*To overcome obstacles and achieve goals, I should say.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Of the coaches who contracts are known by Cap Friendly the Flames are spending the least on their head coach.

https://www.capfriendly.com/coaches

I don't know if it's the GM'S theory, or if this is something that ownership mandates, but it's clear that this organization has a tendency to cheap out on coaches in recent years.

Troy Brouwer's buyout makes more for the next two seasons than our head coach does.

I could be completely misremembering, but pretty sure every coaching search this team has done in the last 10 years, we start reading and hearing rumours of ownership not wanting to pay up

[Red]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I could be completely misremembering, but pretty sure every coaching search this team has done in the last 10 years, we start reading and hearing rumours of ownership not wanting to pay up

And is there any proof of that or is this just typical fan talk about the evil cheap owners?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Red

And is there any proof of that or is this just typical fan talk about the evil cheap owners?

Couldn't tell ya, it might even have been Francis-type reporting meant to stir crap up and get clicks. All I know is it's in the back of my head as something talked about, and looking at all the recent coaching hires makes me think there might be something to it

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't know if it's the GM'S theory, or if this is something that ownership mandates, but it's clear that this organization has a tendency to cheap out on coaches in recent years.

It looks like Peters made $2 million a year when he was with us so it's probably reasonable to expect they'd be at least willing to shell out around that range, given that he had the team competing for the President's Trophy.

We largely retaining the core from then, I might add, so that gives me a lot of pause when assigning blame to the players themselves. Why the hell did we look so fast and deadly two years ago and look like suddenly slow and molasses with mostly the same personnel? We're trying to win a Cup here, not let him grasp his bearings, he's had seasons worth of familiarity with the team already so that can't be excused.

If Ward doesn't show some sign that he can take this team to the next step this season he should be shown the door.

Also looks like ol' Torts is up for renewal after this season! I'm hoping Laine is a crybaby, Columbus falls out of contention, Torts is let go and we throw him an offer lol.

[Red]

Sounds like fans voicing their frustrations.
Treliving is a well liked guy. Blaming the owners for his shortcomings is an easy out for his fans.

The team spends to the cap. What logical rationale is there to put a cap on coaches when they only make what an average player does?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Red

Sounds like fans voicing their frustrations.
Treliving is a well liked guy. Blaming the owners for his shortcomings is an easy out for his fans.

The team spends to the cap. What logical rationale is there to put a cap on coaches when they only make what an average player does?

It really doesn't make sense, but fans are just trying to figure out why our last 7 coaches look like this

Geoff Ward
Bill Peters
Glen Gulutzan
Bob Hartley
Brent Sutter
Mike Keenan
Jim Playfair

[Red]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It really doesn't make sense, but fans are just trying to figure out why our last 7 coaches look like this

Geoff Ward
Bill Peters
Glen Gulutzan
Bob Hartley
Brent Sutter
Mike Keenan
Jim Playfair

I will take a crack at it.

Playfair. Good assistant to Sutter. Natural progression when Sutter decided to focus on GMing so he could spend more time signing starlike Marchment or making great trades like the one with Phaneuf.
Keenan - old buddy. A once great coach with reputation of riling the troops.
Brent - an up and comer with good family genes.
Heartley - no idea why he was hired, but he was a SC winning coach with experience. A known commodity.
GG - Treliving liked him
Bill Peters - Treliving loved him
Ward - Treliving had no heart to replace him after the not all that terrible interim tenure.

[Traditional_Ale]

Bring in Darryl, Ward to assistant. Continue.

Team continues to stink, or players and staff take advantage of a fresh start/do-over.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Red

Playfair. Good assistant to Sutter. Natural progression when Sutter decided to focus on GMing so he could spend more time signing starlike Marchment or making great trades like the one with Phaneuf.

The moment Matt Stajan scored the go-ahead goal against the Canucks in the playoffs in that epic comeback to win the only series since 2004, we won that trade. Easily. It just took a while.

[motorcrosser]

I noticed in a recent presser, he said his family is still back in Boston. This could be Covid, or kids school, but maybe he's not totally confident that he'll be around long term.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Red

And is there any proof of that or is this just typical fan talk about the evil cheap owners?

One clue would to be to look at how our majority owner runs his other company, CNRL. I'm not in the industry, but I always hear how it's one of the thriftiest run companies in O/G....so chances are Edwards uses a similar philosophy with the Flames. Now CNRL is fairly successful, but what works in one industry doesn't always work in another.

I've only had a couple of professional interactions with the Flames, and they reinforced their general reputation for cheapness.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by indes

I'm confused by our line up decisions, I'm not an NHL coach but I don't see all the other teams lining up to split up their scoring talent across 3 lines.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Dube
2 - way line? - Tkachuk is a top 3 offensive player on our team, Lindholm at C and Dube are not.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Simon
Scorers + Anchor? Why? Simon doesn't help either of these players. Everyone keeps saying these guys need someone to go dig out pucks for them. They need someone who can read the play and help on the rush, Hudler style.

Mangi - Backlund - Leivo
Fast defensive line?

Mangi has some offensive chops, wasted with Backlund and Leivo

Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom
Mediocre two way C + anchors.

We have our top 6 players spread across 3 lines instead of 2.

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/t...-combinations/

Tampa, Toronto, Colorado..
All of them have their best talent on their top 2 lines.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Mangi - Backlund - Lindholm
Dube - Bennett - Leivo
Lucic - Ryan - Simon

Or if you really want Lindholm at C

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Mangi - Lindholm - Dube
Bennett - Backlund - Leivo
Lucic - Ryan - Simon

You could swap Monahan and Lindholm if you want but these are lines that all have clear strengths.

Top line has great IQ and positioning.
2nd line has great speed and two way play.
3rd line could be a fantastic shut down line.

4th line is not great.

Anyways it's clear that 5v5 Ward wants to roll 4 lines and hamstring the offense of the top 3 lines.

Combine this with our horrible line matching and refusal to shorten the bench and we are gonna be in for a long frustrating season, where we just can't finish.

Those guys should absolutely be in our top 6..

Why Simon? He’s the guy you put there when injuries strike.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Table 5

One clue would to be to look at how our majority owner runs his other company, CNRL. I'm not in the industry, but I always hear how it's one of the thriftiest run companies in O/G....so chances are Edwards uses a similar philosophy with the Flames. Now CNRL is fairly successful, but what works in one industry doesn't always work in another.

I've only had a couple of professional interactions with the Flames, and they reinforced their general reputation for cheapness.

But that's not how they spend on players. They spend to the cap. This isn't arizona or ottawa on a string shoe budget.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Table 5

One clue would to be to look at how our majority owner runs his other company, CNRL. I'm not in the industry, but I always hear how it's one of the thriftiest run companies in O/G....so chances are Edwards uses a similar philosophy with the Flames. Now CNRL is fairly successful, but what works in one industry doesn't always work in another.

I've only had a couple of professional interactions with the Flames, and they reinforced their general reputation for cheapness.

Been my experience as well

We can speculate on the reasons all we want but frankly, the proof is in the pudding and all of our coaches in recent memory have essentially been bargain bin level. Peters got 2 million, that's still below average for coaches. I'd be curious to see what Hartley got but considering he wasn't even in the NHL at the time, I'm guessing it wasn't much