Kobe Bryant, 41, daughter, 13, killed in helicopter crash

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Whoa guys, do I need to bump my blackface thread?

Wear an Arabian prince costume with face paint in 2001 = everyone hates you.

Rape a woman in 2003 = doesn't matter, good basketball player. He probably made up for it or didn't do it again or something.

I'm confused.

It's really quite simple, he's dead, so if you don't have anything nice to say you keep your mouth shut

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's really quite simple, he's dead, so if you don't have anything nice to say you keep your mouth shut

Silly argument.

What about historical figures with death tolls in the millions? Or Jeffrey Epstein?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Silly argument.

What about historical figures with death tolls in the millions? Or Jeffrey Epstein?

I might express an opinion about Epstein's death or the politics around the case but no, if someone here was a massive admirer of Epstien and genuinely upset he was dead I would shut my mouth, there is nothing to be gained by upsetting someone over a dead person.

[Oling_Roachinen]

What about Epstein's victims? He's dead so we just forget them and force them to suffer in silence? Don't let them talk bad about the dead!

#### that. Instead we should continually hammer home how awful of a person Epstein was, let his victims know we support them.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What about Epstein's victims? He's dead so we just forget them and force them to suffer in silence? Don't let them talk bad about the dead!

#### that. Instead we should continually hammer home how awful of a person Epstein was, let his victims know we support them.

In the unlikely possibility I meet one of his victims I would be massively supportive, in the equally unlikely possibility I met his family member I would keep my mouth shut.

The idea is to not pointlessly upset anyone

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

In the unlikely possibility I meet one of his victims I would be massively supportive, in the equally unlikely possibility I met his family member I would keep my mouth shut.

The idea is to not pointlessly upset anyone

lol, dude. You can't just make up rules. You don't have to say anything negative about a deceased person if you don't want to, but that isn't some objective rule we all have to follow. You're being ridiculous.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol, dude. You can't just make up rules. You don't have to say anything negative about a deceased person if you don't want to, but that isn't some objective rule we all have to follow. You're being ridiculous.

It's not a rule, a question was asked, that was my answer, but anyone is free to be a p**** if they want.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's not a rule, a question was asked, that was my answer, but anyone is free to be a p**** if they want.

haha, get a load of this guy.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's really quite simple, he's dead, so if you don't have anything nice to say you keep your mouth shut

Strange take. I have no problem speaking ill of the dead when its deserved.

Epstein, Michael Jackson, etc. etc.

[Flames007]

R.I.P. to my favorite player ever! 🐍 Mamba for Life 💔

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

First off, that was Kane. Not Kobe.

Second, alleged rape victims are not the defense.

Ahhh yes... confusing my cases, you right. It's been too long

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

In the unlikely possibility I meet one of his victims I would be massively supportive, in the equally unlikely possibility I met his family member I would keep my mouth shut.

Well, I think we can all agree that no one should attend Kobe's funeral to insult the guy while his friends and family mourn. We're just talking about it on an online forum.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The idea is to not pointlessly upset anyone

Does that extend that to the victims though? I mean, if you're an Epstein rape survivor and people started talking about what a stand up role model he was, pretty easy why his victims would be upset about that.

[RichKlit]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

Well, I would a few differences are:

-For Kobe, the rape accusation was not a repetitive event.

-There was an effort by Kobe not to victim shame, he tried to understand where the victim was coming from, but rather defend his belief that his recounting of the events was different.

-he did apologize and admit that regardless of whether it was consensual, that it was not appropriate for a myriad of reasons

-He faced the music and the trial, and was not found guilty. We don't know exactly what happened, and since then he did make a lot of efforts to advocate for women

-There was no more smoke that followed him in his personal life. He was very well respected from those close with him, and did not have other accusations of him abusing power

So its not really clear to me if he did anything illegal, or if it was a one off mistake. He faced it, and has bettered himself, and been a valuable member of society, including being a good father to his girls. People make mistakes, and we shouldnt label people black and white.

Ultimately, he was a person that touched a lot of people in a real positive way, and is simply someone that everyknow knows and has connected with in some way.

As far as the Trudeau stuff, thats just a different conversation with a different context, that IMO, has no place in this topic.

A lot of this is just plain wrong.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It's really quite simple, he's dead, so if you don't have anything nice to say you keep your mouth shut

I share thoughts with Sliver about this, but rather than just piling on..

I think funerals are bull####. I don't remember some buddy as the best person in the world and all the amazing things he did. I remember him as sometimes being an insensitive ####### in a funny way. I remember being annoyed when he was always late. That's part of who he was.

So why the hell would we sit there and pretend he's perfect when imperfection was part of who he was. I want to remember the person, not some dumb made up image of a person.

Now here's the problem with celebrity deaths. We have no idea who he was. All we see is his celebrity presence that his PR team has carefully crafted. Just another reason mourning over any celebrity, let alone a potentially ####ty one, is stupid.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Now here's the problem with celebrity deaths. We have no idea who he was. All we see is his celebrity presence that his PR team has carefully crafted. Just another reason mourning over any celebrity, let alone a potentially ####ty one, is stupid.

Everyone thought Kirby Puckett was the greatest guy in the world, but then:

https://www.si.com/vault/2003/03/17/...-more-shocking

None of us really know what celebrity people are really like.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Good people do bad things
Bad people do good things

Which of those was Kobe? I have no idea.
I was never a big fan of him as a player. I admired his skill but felt he was selfish at times. I try not to guess if a pro athlete is a good person or not, but certainly the rape altered my view of him further.

In more recent years I felt more connected to him, because of the joy he seemed to take in being a "girl dad" (as I am too)

My sadness for this incident is largely based on
- the horror he must have felt being there with his daughter
- his remaining family and children
- the other victims and their families

I think he was a good dad. And I think he did some good things in this world. That counts for something
But he also did some horrible things. Or at least one very horrible thing.
So that also is on his ledger.

How it all totals up - i have no idea.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I’m very much mourning Kobe’s passing. But the Colorado stuff is something I’ll never defend him from. He did improve and mature after that, but if people want to hate him forever for what he did, especially victims of sexual assault, they honestly have the right to do so. Yeah he become a more decent person afterwards, but it doesn’t excuse his actions during that time period. I know it’s likely hard to see victims of sexual assault seeing Kobe being mourned by so many people knowing what he did, but at the same time it’s Kobe fricken Bryant. One of the most iconic athletes of all-time. The impact he left was bigger than just basketball. I just hope that those people can at least see that or at the very least feel for the other victims and his daughter that where lost and their families.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

I share thoughts with Sliver about this, but rather than just piling on..

I think funerals are bull####. I don't remember some buddy as the best person in the world and all the amazing things he did. I remember him as sometimes being an insensitive ####### in a funny way. I remember being annoyed when he was always late. That's part of who he was.

So why the hell would we sit there and pretend he's perfect when imperfection was part of who he was. I want to remember the person, not some dumb made up image of a person.

Now here's the problem with celebrity deaths. We have no idea who he was. All we see is his celebrity presence that his PR team has carefully crafted. Just another reason mourning over any celebrity, let alone a potentially ####ty one, is stupid.

I haven’t been to many funerals where those details were dodged and not shared by the best friends. They usually are light moments where everyone shares a chuckle because they were treated that way, too.

But I agree, mourning over someone who couldn’t say your name if you ran into them on the street is just messed up. Especially when there’s probably people who are lonely and in need of love and connection right inside your own family or close circles. Spend your emotional effort where it matters, Jesus.