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Old 01-27-2020, 10:30 AM   #61
Baron von Kriterium
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Who would have thought the Iranians would supply the Taliban with massively better weaponry through some cut out proxies to make the US's life harder?

Would take a genius to see that one coming.
Which brings us back to Qassem Soleimani (QS). In 2001, Iran shared intelligence with the USA about Taliban in Afghanistan. There was actual progress with relations between the USA and Iran. Funny enough, it was QS who was at the forefront of the initiative. QS and US General Franks were allies during the battle of Herat, Afghanistan. IRGC and Quds forces were all over Afghanistan and they never fought with US forces or CIA operators.

And then the neocon, Israel-firster David Frum came along with his catchy "Axis of Evil" phrase and the rest is history.
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:28 AM   #62
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With regard to the downed USAF plane in Afghanistan, Twitter chatter is all about an alleged passenger on that plane, namely Michael D'Andrea (aka The Dark Prince / Ayatollah Mike). He is (was?) the CIA's main dude for all things anti-Iran in western Asia. It was highly likely he was instrumental in the coordination of the Suleimani killing.

However, is it likely that someone of The Dark Prince's stature would be a passenger in a loitering plane for several hours? It doesn't seem logical, but this is the CIA so who knows.

Of course, I need to add the small caveat that this is not confirmed.

But! Back to the plane. I'm not so sure this plane was shot down; the engines certainly don't show signs of an IR-MANPAD hit. The plane looks to me like it crash landed on its belly and burned after. I suspect the some/all of the crew were rescued. During that process, they sabotaged the plane

I don't think we'll ever know the facts. The media certainly isn't covering this so it may as well have never happened.

Update as of 28 0841 Jan 20
According to Jack Murphy (twitter @JackMurphyRGR):
- E-11A recovery op complete
- JSOC operators reached the crash site despite harsh weather
- 2 x US KIA recovered [I assume crew, but there wasn't any further info as to whether there were others on board)
- flight recorder recovered
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:44 PM   #63
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Recall the Iranian ballistic missile attack on the Iraqi air base several weeks ago and the initial US claims of zero casualties. Well, as the media lost interest, the Pentagon released numbers - initially 8, then 11, now something like 34 with many having to be evac to Germany.
The latest US casualty update from the DoD is 64.
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:47 PM   #64
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Whoops. Israeli Iron Dome SNAFU over Siderot tonight and hits Sapir college.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1223007866224893952
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:01 PM   #65
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Breaking news! Problems with the F-35 gun. And it's also still susceptible to cyber attacks. Oh, it has over 800 software issues.

The good news is the gun has been an issue since forever, so it's not something new. The bad news is they haven't fixed it yet and the gun housing is cracking.
https://twitter.com/user/status/1223044977145655298
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:04 PM   #66
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Honestly the more I read into it, the more I might be favouring the Gripen for Canada. F-35 having issues is whatever, every new plane is like that. It's more the costs of running it (not purchasing) that make me pause. Then also reading just how small the radar cross section of the JAS-39 is made me re-think the whole thing a bit too, while obviously not stealth it's still really difficult to detect, and that's just the older models, the E will supposedly be even harder
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Old 01-31-2020, 06:57 AM   #67
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F-35 having issues is whatever, every new plane is like that. It's more the costs of running it (not purchasing) that make me pause.
Sure, new planes have their issues. But the F-15, for example, only took three years to develop. The F-35 is currently at 18 years and counting. It's like a Jaguar. Just when you fix a problem, another one (or more) crops up.

The F-35 may very well turn out to be awesome, but we don't know how long that will take nor how much it will cost. No one can answer that.
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:52 PM   #68
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Won't take much to convince me Baron. I'm at the point now where as long as it's not the Super Hornet, I'm happy
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:32 PM   #69
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Been reading on a few sites today that Saab is coming in with an offer for 88 gripens built in canada. All E/F versions with the upgraded engines.

It's the closest they're going to get to 120 planes. And they can build more later. Sounds like the deal would be to built them at Bombardier in QC?
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:42 PM   #70
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Been reading on a few sites today that Saab is coming in with an offer for 88 gripens built in canada. All E/F versions with the upgraded engines.

It's the closest they're going to get to 120 planes. And they can build more later. Sounds like the deal would be to built them at Bombardier in QC?
You had me until the last 3 words.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:44 PM   #71
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You had me until the last 3 words.
Our Gripen's canopies won't open in cold weather.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:54 PM   #72
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You had me until the last 3 words.
You just know the Feds will take this just to keep a QC company going.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:57 PM   #73
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Been reading on a few sites today that Saab is coming in with an offer for 88 gripens built in canada. All E/F versions with the upgraded engines.

It's the closest they're going to get to 120 planes. And they can build more later. Sounds like the deal would be to built them at Bombardier in QC?
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You had me until the last 3 words.
Give it to Bombardier and it'll be late, they'll be lemons, there will be enormous cost overruns, and Bombardier will still be bankrupt afterwards.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:58 PM   #74
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They should put it in Lloydminster so they can benefit 2 provinces. Plus it's close to CFB Cold Lake.
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Old 02-03-2020, 03:45 PM   #75
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Bombardier took a 20,000 Iltis Jeep which was a crappy jeep, and licensed it to build it for the Canadian Government thanks to some nifty lobbying and managed to get three times the price for the contract.

So a 40 million dollar per plane will cost far more then 120 million dollars a plane by the time Bombardier gets their hands on it.

I'm still not a super fan of the Gripen, We're buying another 50 year jet fighter, which means the Gripen won't be super capable by the halfway point of the cycle.

the ultimate goal is to get away from a 120 plane airforce, we're having enough problems retaining the pilots that we have as well. The Gripen E is also going to have a price tag in the $85 million dollar price tag (brazil) which is not that much cheaper then the F-35, but with the F-35 the expectation is an airforce of half the size, so we're probably talking double the price (sorry I'm fuzzy lately).

There are operational F-35's around the world so it's interesting to see these problems, we'll have to see how the bid turns out, but capability to capability, the Gripen doesn't compete. Its a nice plane but the budget figures wouldn't make sense.

As well, if this is about pork barrelling to a Quebec company like Bombardier to keep them alive, I'd pass, they can't be counted on for a crucial military contract.


there's also the question of the modifications to make them interoperable within Norad. One of the reasons why Rafale dropped out is they couldn't do it.
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Old 02-03-2020, 03:55 PM   #76
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The other thing that has to be answered is simple. We don't have a production facility for modern jet fighters, they're different then commercial planes, which we have one facility for. so how many billions would we have to spend to spool up production. And again there's one company right now that would be asked.
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Old 02-03-2020, 04:36 PM   #77
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Bombardier took a 20,000 Iltis Jeep which was a crappy jeep, and licensed it to build it for the Canadian Government thanks to some nifty lobbying and managed to get three times the price for the contract.

So a 40 million dollar per plane will cost far more then 120 million dollars a plane by the time Bombardier gets their hands on it.

I'm still not a super fan of the Gripen, We're buying another 50 year jet fighter, which means the Gripen won't be super capable by the halfway point of the cycle.

the ultimate goal is to get away from a 120 plane airforce, we're having enough problems retaining the pilots that we have as well. The Gripen E is also going to have a price tag in the $85 million dollar price tag (brazil) which is not that much cheaper then the F-35, but with the F-35 the expectation is an airforce of half the size, so we're probably talking double the price (sorry I'm fuzzy lately).

There are operational F-35's around the world so it's interesting to see these problems, we'll have to see how the bid turns out, but capability to capability, the Gripen doesn't compete. Its a nice plane but the budget figures wouldn't make sense.

As well, if this is about pork barrelling to a Quebec company like Bombardier to keep them alive, I'd pass, they can't be counted on for a crucial military contract.


there's also the question of the modifications to make them interoperable within Norad. One of the reasons why Rafale dropped out is they couldn't do it.
Yeah, my first thought was the Iltis too. I can't imagine how costly a snafu a Quebec union-produced Swedish 4.5 generation fighter plane would be for the Canadian taxpayer, but who cares, right?
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:06 PM   #78
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Yeah, my first thought was the Iltis too. I can't imagine how costly a snafu a Quebec union-produced Swedish 4.5 generation fighter plane would be for the Canadian taxpayer, but who cares, right?

A lot of people got very rich over the Iltis deal including close buddies of the Quebec Government at the time. I can just imagine how much money Bombardier would make in terms of building a Fighter Jet production facility for a one time run of aircraft from the Government.


And it would be a 1 time production run of 120 fighters, its not like we can export and sell Bombardier JAS-39's. So what happens after the run is over, maintenance facilities would be a separate deal.





It sounds good on paper, a boom to the aerospace industry, jerbs, but until they can show a true cost of doing that and building twice as many JAS-39's as the F-35 for example, it seems like it would be a really expensive solution with the possibility of significant cost over runs for a nice, but not as capable plane that has to be in service for 50 years or more.


Oh, and if the Government wanted this to be open, they'd also open the competition to other provinces for the facility in a far and impartial way.
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:09 PM   #79
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A Bombardier produced fighter jet? I can just imagine. Can't go faster than mach 1, would have half the payload as a regular Grippen, ridiculous fuel burn rates, very short range, and would cost more than 130 million each.
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:11 PM   #80
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This is basically what we did with the F-5, correct? Lower-tech, light fighter to save costs. RCAF doesn't know what to do with it.

Bindair Dondat had a great post on this awhile back including some cool projections on what could have been if Canada had gone with the F-4 Phantom in the 1970s.
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