Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 06-13-2018, 01:53 PM   #1
delayedreflex
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Exp:
Default Player's Tribune: Everything's Not OK (Nick Boynton)

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ythings-not-ok

This one's a tough read... with more media awareness on mental health issues, concussions, and substance abuse, I think the timing is right for a piece like this. As fun at as it is to watch the physical aspects of hockey, fights, etc. - reading this makes me question whether it is worth it. In the article, Boynton says he would easily trade the Stanley Cup that he won for not having to go through the pain and suffering that he has faced. The league, the teams, and even the fans need to take a long hard look at these issues and whether they are OK with taking the steps necessary to manage head injuries and support players with mental health issues.
delayedreflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2018, 04:28 PM   #2
TheIronMaiden
Franchise Player
 
TheIronMaiden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: ATCO Field, Section 201
Exp:
Default

Stories like this make me glad that the Flames have hired McGrattan to help the players on the team. I know that it is not a solution, but it is a step in the right direction.
TheIronMaiden is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheIronMaiden For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2018, 04:49 PM   #3
Cali Panthers Fan
Franchise Player
 
Cali Panthers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by delayedreflex View Post
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en...ythings-not-ok

This one's a tough read... with more media awareness on mental health issues, concussions, and substance abuse, I think the timing is right for a piece like this. As fun at as it is to watch the physical aspects of hockey, fights, etc. - reading this makes me question whether it is worth it. In the article, Boynton says he would easily trade the Stanley Cup that he won for not having to go through the pain and suffering that he has faced. The league, the teams, and even the fans need to take a long hard look at these issues and whether they are OK with taking the steps necessary to manage head injuries and support players with mental health issues.
For what it's worth, Boynton was one of the players that Daniel Carcillo mentioned by name that he's currently trying to help recover from his concussions at the Carrick institute. Hopefully he can get better soon following the same treatment that Carcillo did.

This issue is going to build to a swell in the next couple of years. The way the game is played will probably change forever, but it's for the best. I hope people become educated on this ASAP so that they can accept the changes that are inevitably coming.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien View Post
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
Cali Panthers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Cali Panthers Fan For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2018, 05:17 PM   #4
Cali Panthers Fan
Franchise Player
 
Cali Panthers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Exp:
Default

I found this excerpt from the article interesting

Quote:
After a while, each day, and even entire chunks of the season, became almost like a daze. I was so medicated, and it began to get pretty frightening for me. So I decided that I needed to do something. I got my courage up, and got my #### together, and found a way to tell some people with the team I was playing for that I had a problem. It took everything I had in me to do that, but the response I received when I spoke to people was really uplifting. Everyone I talked to was so understanding. Every single person said they were there for me, and that they wanted to get me the help I needed.

A few weeks later, after the season had ended, I was back home in Nobleton, Ontario, at the old town hall, helping my folks set up for my sister’s buck and doe party before her wedding, when the phone rang.

One of my buddies had seen my name on the ESPN ticker.

“Nick, what the hell, man? I can’t believe it.”

I had no clue what he was talking about.

Turns out that less than a month after I’d gone to my team and asked for help, I got traded away to another city.
Nick was traded twice in June around the draft. Once by the Boston Bruins, and another time by the Phoenix Coyotes. (Click on Show Trades)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=23713


I really don't know which team would is more likely to have traded him away after his request for help. However, Treliving was NOT the AGM at the time in the desert, so he had no say in that decision if it was the Coyotes.

It seems pretty despicable to do that to a player in need. I find it doubtful that his condition was disclosed prior to the trade, so that GM probably traded damaged goods to his rival without telling him.

My money is on Chiarelli in 2006.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien View Post
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
Cali Panthers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2018, 05:18 PM   #5
Cube Inmate
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Boxed-in
Exp:
Default

This is the 3rd or 4th or 10th fighter who's written in the Player's Trib about his anxiety about fighting. Combine head injuries, constant fear (of tomorrow's face-punching, of losing your job), alcohol & drugs to dull the pain...and you've got a seriously damaged head. Both physiologically and psychologically.

I enjoy watching hard hits and spontaneous fights, but there's just too much damage being done.
Cube Inmate is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cube Inmate For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2018, 06:41 PM   #6
Jacks
Franchise Player
 
Jacks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Exp:
Default

He was interviewed on QR77 this afternoon.
https://globalnews.ca/pages/on-deman...lk770-calgary/
Select June 13th - 12:00pm, show starts at 36min mark.
Jacks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2018, 06:55 PM   #7
Gallick
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Gallick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

I've been a long time supporter of fighting in professional hockey for all the usual reasons, but reading article after article from the mouths of those who have actually have to do the deed is starting to change my mind. I don't know what the solution to this problem is but at the very least it has to involve better medical care during players' careers and better support afterwards. It makes me wonder how many more of these guys we have to lose before the old-school fighting hardliners have to admit that there is a problem.
Gallick is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Gallick For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2018, 06:58 PM   #8
jayswin
Celebrated Square Root Day
 
jayswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Yeah, me too. I've argued in favour of fighting and battled Jiri specifically on occasions in defense of it, but I think I'm at the point of seeing a quick end to it now.
jayswin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to jayswin For This Useful Post:
Old 06-13-2018, 10:10 PM   #9
EVERLAST
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: https://homestars.com/companies/2808346-keith-my-furnace-guy
Exp:
Default

Wow it’s hard reading about these fellas. I boxed for close to 20 years , played rugby, football, wrestled in jr and high school and had allot of concussions but still don’t believe I’ve been hit as hard as hockey players do.

I hope this begins changing soon as no one deserves to have the ill effects change the lives they try living after hockey.
EVERLAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2018, 10:34 PM   #10
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

I had a bunch of concussions, and they still effect me to this day, and as I get older the headaches, memory gaps and the occasional bout of coordination issues don't get better. The last concussion I got was when I played flag football with fellas from this very site, and I spent 2 months suffering even though the actual contact was minor.

When you look at things like enrollment in youth football and even to an extent hockey, a lot of parents are keeping their kids out of contact sports.

I would expect that if the lawsuits against the NFL/CFL and even the NHL succeed that those sports will be seriously forced to change or go out of existence.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
Old 06-14-2018, 01:43 AM   #11
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
Yeah, me too. I've argued in favour of fighting and battled Jiri specifically on occasions in defense of it, but I think I'm at the point of seeing a quick end to it now.
Literally exactly what I was thinking. I would read Jiri and others on this site for years and roll my eyes and think what a joke, it’s the game, it’s the way it’s always been. If you take out the physical aspect the intensity disappears. I think that still holds true, but...

But after reading this gut wrenching article... man. I don’t know how any reasonable person reads this top to bottom and thinks to themselves let’s keep things the way they are. Message received, it’s pretty ####ed up. It seems fairly obvious there’s a pretty consistent pattern here. Not just hockey either as Captain says. Football too... Junior Seau shot himself in the chest rather than the head to preserve the brain for research to prove a point. Crazy. Did he die in vain? Did all of these people?

If the game has to change to prevent this kind of thing then have at er

Last edited by Mr.Coffee; 06-14-2018 at 01:46 AM.
Mr.Coffee is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mr.Coffee For This Useful Post:
Old 06-14-2018, 05:14 AM   #12
N-E-B
Franchise Player
 
N-E-B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Guys don’t make the NHL by simply being good at fighting anymore, and that’s a good thing. Back in the day most teams had at least one guy on their team whose sole purpose was to fight. In this day and age that role is virtually gone.

I still believe there’s a place for it in the game, but I don’t believe there’s a place for the “goon” anymore. I think the league is headed in the right direction.
N-E-B is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to N-E-B For This Useful Post:
Old 06-14-2018, 05:42 AM   #13
King Theo
Scoring Winger
 
King Theo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PEI
Exp:
Default

I also still think there is a place for some fighting in hockey. I am glad that fighting has goon down and the NHL is trying to get away from staged fights. There is a good documentary, Ice Guardians. They talk about head injuries, and they believe fighting is the cause of about 5%, the rest are hits to the head or even clean checks.
King Theo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to King Theo For This Useful Post:
Old 06-14-2018, 08:46 AM   #14
CaptainCrunch
Norm!
 
CaptainCrunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Exp:
Default

when I took the coaching certification class, a large part of it was around concussion recognition and protocol.

One think that Boyton did say that really should resonate but doesn't is that its the accumulation of smaller hits that cause a lot of the problems. especially the stuff that comes from outside of your vision cone.

If a person gets caught int the tracks, at least he can prepare for that hit, and if he's lucky prevent it from being as bad as it looks, with fighting its the same, he can see the punch coming.

However its the little nudges a long the boards, or in front of the net that are causing a lot of problems.

In football its the passenger style hits, and the blocks from the side that cause a big chuck of the problems.

I don't know how you can fix those types of hits. With passenger hits its probably easy, but blocks from the side that don't involve head to head contact that are tough to fix.

The concern now is if you go after the smaller hits that can cause damage does it make the game become a penalty filled slog.

If you decide to ringettify hockey and put a 12 inch bubble around players, what does the game become.

Like I said, I don't think its going to matter much, once that first concussion lawsuit comes back with damages it opens a huge door that will probably not only change sports for ever, but really put the pro leagues in a bad position.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
CaptainCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2018, 08:56 AM   #15
dobbles
addition by subtraction
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tulsa, OK
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cube Inmate View Post
This is the 3rd or 4th or 10th fighter who's written in the Player's Trib about his anxiety about fighting. Combine head injuries, constant fear (of tomorrow's face-punching, of losing your job), alcohol & drugs to dull the pain...and you've got a seriously damaged head. Both physiologically and psychologically.

I enjoy watching hard hits and spontaneous fights, but there's just too much damage being done.
Setting aside the concussion/physical injury side of the debate for the sake of this point...

I wonder how some of the star players that have indicated they feel safer having enforcers around might reconcile this new found information? One of the traditional arguments folks would bring out in support of fighting, enforcers, and staged fighting, was that superstars would have quotes where they supported that as a way to keep the cheap shots down. But now knowing how much many of their protectors hated the role and the additional problems so many had just due to the psychological impact of being expected to fight, I would have to think the argument no longer holds weight?

It may be a moot point because head injuries may necessitate fighting being totally gone sooner rather than later, but at the very least, it think it continues to show that the idea of an enforcer is very flawed. I would love to see heat of the moment type fights continue. I think that adds a level of passion and drama to the sport that no other team sports has. But I'm not sure how they could allow it with all the brain research coming out.
dobbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2018, 09:16 AM   #16
GioforPM
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Theo View Post
I also still think there is a place for some fighting in hockey. I am glad that fighting has goon down and the NHL is trying to get away from staged fights. There is a good documentary, Ice Guardians. They talk about head injuries, and they believe fighting is the cause of about 5%, the rest are hits to the head or even clean checks.
Fighting may be the cause of about 5% of concussions but that's probably because there are about 5% as many fights as hits. Since fighting is already illegal and ordinary hitting is not, an argument can be made that you can eliminate that 5% by banning fighting altogether.

I believe the sport will eventually make all head contact a penalty.
GioforPM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2018, 09:44 AM   #17
Scroopy Noopers
Pent-up
 
Scroopy Noopers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM View Post
Fighting may be the cause of about 5% of concussions but that's probably because there are about 5% as many fights as hits. Since fighting is already illegal and ordinary hitting is not, an argument can be made that you can eliminate that 5% by banning fighting altogether.

I believe the sport will eventually make all head contact a penalty.
Another thing is how different 95% of fights look nowadays vs 30 years ago. They used to just throw haymakers and take 8-10 in the face a fight. Today, for the most part, it’s more of a grapple and busting a couple knuckles off a guys helmet to get the rage out.
Scroopy Noopers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2018, 12:21 PM   #18
speede5
First Line Centre
 
speede5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Exp:
Default

It is interesting though, because someone mentioned McGratten being brought in to help players and in Ice Gaurdians he is a pretty vocal supporter of fighting.

I was surprised at that doc as it was really pointing at the cheap shots and other elements of todays game as the real culprit, and fighting being acceptable.
speede5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2018, 02:14 PM   #19
CaptainYooh
Franchise Player
 
CaptainYooh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Reading confessions from former NHL enforcers is difficult, for sure. No doubts, these guys are suffering and dealing with a lot of health issues. Also, no doubts, they need whatever medical help and support they can get from NHL and NHLPA.

But I do think NHL is way passed the "we need to do something" point. The message has been heard and a lot of things have happened already. Enforcer, as a special role on ice, is no longer a thing in today's NHL. I can't recall seeing a single pre-arranged fight in the past season.

Spontaneous fights do happen time after time in the heat of the moment, but could they or should they be prevented? I am not sure the answer is that obvious. The guys blow some steam and they usually get separated very quickly.

There is a lot more danger coming from hideous little hits from behind, knees and blindsided hits that refs either don't see or that look legit. I've heard Burke speaking about this in one of his public appearances. He said the game was becoming too fast and too dangerous for the size of the ice we have here. Guys are getting stronger and faster, equipment is getting better, self-policing is no longer as effective - he thought this was ripe for bad injuries and cowardly plays to proliferate.
__________________
"An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think." Georg Hegel
“To generalize is to be an idiot.” William Blake
CaptainYooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #20
McG
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 55...Can you see us now?
Exp:
Default

As a soccer coach, I have long wondered how many headed soccer balls are too many at all levels. If we believe that small movement of the brain repeatedly over time has the potential for damage, well I don’t know how else to describe heading a soccer ball. I ask my players to use other body parts to control the ball, but it isn’t always possible under the current circumstances. I was doing a high level coaching certificate and one of the drills was a heading game. After I got home my wife asked me if I had been drinking because My speech and demeanour was as if I was drunk. I hadn’t had anything but water. Pretty scary. People think that I’m crazy when I say that I’d like heading removed from all levels of the game.

Rugby registrations are down in the uk, and I can only imagine that all contact sports will have to acknowledge and deal with brain injuries at some point.

Maybe if we call them brain injuries instead of head injuries it makes it sound more realistic.

Like many, I used to love a physical hockey game especially with fighting, but now with understanding the damage that is being done, I look forward to head shots leaving the game.
__________________
Rogers bias. Hit McDavid? Get Brandon Manninged.

We had joy, we had fun, we had a season in the sun, but the wine and the fun like the season is all gone.

Average team is average. Average drafts, average results, average trades, average asset management, average vision, average outcomes. Average.
McG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:33 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021