[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[chedder]

Ferland is a career .35 ppg player. I'd argue that he only got to that level due to playing with johnny and Monahan the last 2 years. I'd bet he regresses down to an even lower ppg guy going forward.

Lindholm is a career .5 ppg. That should increase if he continues to develop and plays top 6.

Ferland has some intangibles, but as others have said, very inconsistent and, I've already said this, his concussion history is going to cause him to play softer very soon.

[Otto-matic]

Feel bad for Ferland.

Probably banking on putting up 20 goals with Mony/Johnny this year for a bit of a pay raise. Now he could be looking at a smaller deal.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FBI

- so we are pairing up Hanifin with Hamonic eh? Isn't Hanifin very similar to Brodie? That didn't work out too well this last year?

Brodie is a LHS RD who from the point likes to pass to his partner for a one-timer (whether that partner is Stone or Giordano), which didn't fit with Hamonic who doesn't have a shot of any note, and this caused the pair to lack any offensive confidence and play at a deteriorated level mentally. Brodie also makes his most deceptive breakout moves on his backhand. He's had the most success dropping dimes and freewheeling, rather than playing with structure in the O-zone.



Hanifin, while a great skater, is a LHS LD who likes to walk the blue line with a serious knack for getting shots on net from the point. I don't want to say he's "cookie cutter" but he's more of a "normal" defenseman for a cycling team, and Hamonic's most successful partner, Calvin De Haan, played more like Hanifin. Additionally, Hamonic was more of a rover himself in his best seasons, so it makes sense not to have two rovers on the same line because that takes the non-roving partner out of their comfort area.

I think the only question is if Hanifin is up to the task of playing top four defensive minutes on a serious playoff contender. There's very little doubt both Hamonic and Brodie are in better positions to succeed going into next season. If Hanifin isn't up to the task, I firmly believe Brett Kulak can, albeit with less offensive upside.

[Kickazzflames]

My thoughts after having some time to digest the trade: (also I am super sorry about the length)

Hamilton

I am going to miss Hamilton's ability to find the net. He was one of the best defense men in the league in that regard. He was exceptional at not hitting bodies or shin pads.

He did struggle a little in his own zone and would sometimes get caught day dreaming when he should be covering his man. I don't know if it was because of his taller frame but it never looked like he was trying hard to defend.

He had a super cap friendly contract for the type of player he was. Losing Hamilton will sting significantly if Brodie can't find his confidence and return to form on the right side.

Ferland

I will never forget what he did to Vancouver in the playoffs. He instantly became a fan favorite, and we all can't say enough about how proud we all were for him to overcome his off-ice struggles.

Ferland has a deadly shot and some speed to go with it. He has some pretty decent hands that help him get to a shooting area. He does struggle with consistency and can't seem to put it together when he isn't playing with a good setup man. He struggles to defend in his own zone and relies on a solid breakout pass to get a rush going. He still plays physically but he doesn't throw his body around any more like the vancouver series since his concussion. That is probably better for his health in the long run. He did still lead the team in hits.

The loss of Ferland is the one that hurts the most. I love what he brings to the table and I don't believe he has reached his ceiling yet. There is the fear that maybe he will only be a complimentary type player which can be okay, but with his UFA status coming up we could be in a bad spot with the money he could be asking for. Things would be bleak if we were saddled with another high contract for a player that can't produce without being on the first line.

Fox

I am extremely frustrated at how much power NCAA players have. It's dumb that a player as promising as Fox has the option of pretty much becoming a UFA after 4 years of college. The rights of a player in college should extend 1-2 years after they graduate. That way the team that drafted these players have the ability to sign them to go pro.

No one knows everything behind the curtain here, but to me it doesn't feel right that we didn't use the next two years to try and work something out with Fox. However, if he still had no intention of ever playing for Calgary I am okay with trading him.

Summary

The fear of Fox not wanting to sign in Carolina as well as Ferland potentially leaving as a UFA is probably why we needed to include both. I really think value wise we should have only given one of the two but not both.

Hanifin has the potential to reach elite and is on the same development curve that Hamiliton was at the this age. Upon hearing that Hanifin prefers to carry the puck into the zone with possession is a breath of fresh air. The less we use the "Dump and Turnover" tactic the better, especially on the power play. The biggest positive is that scouts consider his zone entrance with possession is already on another level. Hamilton leaving could be disastrous if Brodie doesn't return to form and/or Hanifin doesn't continue his development into a top pairing. If the Hanifin and Hamonic pairing doesn't gel we could be in for a long season.

I see Hanifin as a solid 3/4 dman with the potential to become a top pairing defenseman. We lose some of our offense from our defense, but we get better in our own end.

Lindholm does give us another option for a C/RW that can be used up and down the line up. He has the tools, size, skill and potential to break out into something better which has me excited. The big positive here is that I believe Lindholm will still produce no matter what line he is on as opposed to Ferland. Also it is great to hear he was pretty solid on the PK and having more players that excel at this is always a positive, especially with Stajan moving on. At this moment, I don't think Lindholm is our 1st line RW solution and we still need to find the trigger man for that line and PP.

I see Lindholm as a solid option in our middle 6, with the potential to become a top 6 forward. We gain significantly more versatility in terms of balancing our line up, but we do lose more grit and the current trigger man for the top line.

I really hope the Flames are pursuing a goal scorer for the top line/pp. We have way more potential today than we did before, but that is all it is. Potential.

[Harry Lime]

We shouldn't understate the importance of both Hanifin and Lindholm being able to carry the puck into the offensive zone. Brodie is also comfortable doing the same from the right side, if memory serves. Calgary's zone entries were among the worst in the league last year. If it wasn't Johnny, it was dump and chase, and that means that we were willingly giving up possession most of the time.

[wingmaker]

On the surface, this looks like a bad trade by Calgary. They protected themselves from my main worry of trading Hamilton for a winger by getting Hanifin back, but then they added two valuable pieces on their own right to do it. They have given up offence, which is alarming. They gave up the best player, which is alarming. And, they added the sweetener. It certainly looks bad.

That said, the age and development room left for both players coming to Calgary does put a giant asterisk and question mark on the trade and gives time for things to even out and potentially turn in Calgary's favour. But things have to turn out very well for that to happen.

Ballsy move by Treliving, definitely the biggest gamble he has taken as GM so far. Either he and his scouts know what they're doing and will be heralded as geniuses in a couple years, or he gone, potentially as early as next off season. Either way, it isn't comfortable being a Flames fan these days. Interesting times.

[flame^thrower]

Originally Posted by FBI

who gets my F now?

This makes the Frk re-signing even more disappointing!

[Harry Lime]

Brodie back with Gio, Hanifin a 35 point defenseman and getting better every year, and Lindholm is more skilled offensively than Ferland in every way except hitting people.

Why do people keep insisting that we have given up offense?

If you think that the bottom six was bad in Calgary, look at the bottom nine in Carolina. They were not hard to shut down.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

The question I want to pose is how much better are Gaudreau/Monahan than Aho/Teravainen? Enough to expect a 30% increase in production?

I won’t rule it out but I also don’t expect it.

According to these stats https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...es=2017-2018:R

Lindholm played about 46% of his ES shifts with Aho and 16% with Teravainen, so Im not sure its really a fair comparison.

[Royle9]

This may help some.
Taken from reddit:

[AC]

Originally Posted by Royle9

This may help some.
Taken from reddit:

Large size, and the rest of the article is here:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...kbuster-trade/

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Royle9

This may help some.
Taken from reddit:

[The Yen Man]

I'll miss Dougie's offense for sure. But one thing I won't miss are all his dumb penalties. Lets hope Hanifin isn't a penalty machine like Dougie was.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I'll miss Dougie's offense for sure. But one thing I won't miss are all his dumb penalties. Lets hope Hanifin isn't a penalty machine like Dougie was.

Can't believe I never thought of that. Being shorthanded less would be a huge bonus


Hanifin penalty minutes last 3 season

22
26
21

Hamilton PIMS last 3 seasons

46
64
64

[devo22]

only 8 minors last season. 3x hooking, 2x slashing, 2x high-sticking and 1x holding. He also had 1 fighting major.

Getting rid of Hamiltons stupid/lazy penalties is a huge plus for sure.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by devo22

Getting rid of Hamiltons stupid/lazy penalties is a huge plus for sure.

I posted this exact same thought.

That alone might equate to an extra win (or maybe two) over the course of a season.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Kickazzflames

I am extremely frustrated at how much power NCAA players have. It's dumb that a player as promising as Fox has the option of pretty much becoming a UFA after 4 years of college. The rights of a player in college should extend 1-2 years after they graduate. That way the team that drafted these players have the ability to sign them to go pro.

No one knows everything behind the curtain here, but to me it doesn't feel right that we didn't use the next two years to try and work something out with Fox. However, if he still had no intention of ever playing for Calgary I am okay with trading him.

Its no more power than junior players have.

If a jr. player is drafted, but doesn't want to sign, after 2 years he will be re-entered in the draft. If drafted again he has 2 years to sign and if he does not do so, he becomes UFA IIRC.

As for "working something out woth Fox"? Treliving tried. Right up until the draft began on Friday he was talking to AF representatives. Its pretty obvious he was told that AF wasn;t signing with Calgary. As such there was no option but to deal him. That deal happened to be the Hanifin/Lindholm trade that doesnt happen without AF being included.

[btimbit]

Lindholm coming up on 960

[Snuffleupagus]

I haven't listened to Pinder for a long time but he seems to have grown a pair since he's got his own show. I'm not a huge fan but it's nice to see someone speak his mind instead the Steinburg/Kerr homer fest.

He rips this trade, Treliving's FA moves and his over valuing "character"

For those who missed it the audio is here

[Bongsong]

Originally Posted by AC

Large size, and the rest of the article is here:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...kbuster-trade/

So same player that can get out of his zone and don't take stupid penalties and a bit more tuff and only 21