Calgary Flames General Manager Ranking - #3

[SuperMatt18]

Coates is getting rose colored glasses just since he traded for Iggy and Savard.

But his drafting was poor, there weren't many good pieces when he left the team, and nobody would have thought of him as a good GM when he was fired.

Just getting some retrospective love even though he didn't really accomplish much. Considering where the Flames were drafting the years that he was GM, and that we traded Niewendyk, Fleury, Housley, etc away under his watch, the cupboards should have had more than they did when he was fired that's for sure.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by getbak

How did he go out on his own terms? King told him he wasn't going to be the GM anymore. That's all that really matters.

How they word it in the press release is just PR. If he had refused to "resign", he wouldn't have stayed on as the GM.

You're right, that is what happened. But I kind of believe what people say does matter.

I guess it was important to Darryl to leave when asked and the organization cared enough to grant him that small dignity.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Voting for Coates here is like voting for Rudy as one of the great Fighting Irish of all time. Plucky, did what he could with what he had to work with.

I’m still voting for the guy who turned the franchise around and is responsible for the most team success since 1989. Acquiring Reinprecht, Warrener, Kipper, Nilsson, Nieminen, Simon, Langkow, Tanguay, Huselius, Jokinen were some great hockey trades. Some of the UfA signings were awfully good, like Hamrlik.

He has far too many warts and blunders to suggest he shouldn’t have been fired. Leclerc, Kotalik, not getting value for Phaneuf, trading guys like Lydman and Stralman for peanuts, the drafting strategy etc. But when it’s all said and done, he gave us some excellent hockey teams. I suppose in essence my vote is for the Sutter era Flames being the best incarnation of the team after the Fletcher elite teams.

Like the Rudy comparison ...

Quick note on Hamrlik though. That was such an interesting off season with the year off, and then a brand new CBA. All the wealthy teams lost players, and all the smaller market teams were able to add players.

So yeah the Hamrlik signing was a good one, but it wasn't a completely normal playing field with the Flames and another 8-9 teams having a huge advantage that wasn't seen before ... or really since either.

The Oilers added Peca and Pronger that same off season if I remember correctly.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Oilers added Peca and Pronger that same off season if I remember correctly.

Yeah but those were they trades not signings. Both guys wanted out by the end of the season.*edit Pecca was signed...was smart enough to only committ for one year.*

That's why comparing Sutter to Lowe is a bit off for me. The Flames could still get players and very few wanted out of the organization. I think Sutter did bring some credibility back. Lowe was like a modern day Eddie Shore...except one was a total hard ass and the other was a pretty little jerk

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Like the Rudy comparison ...

Quick note on Hamrlik though. That was such an interesting off season with the year off, and then a brand new CBA. All the wealthy teams lost players, and all the smaller market teams were able to add players.

So yeah the Hamrlik signing was a good one, but it wasn't a completely normal playing field with the Flames and another 8-9 teams having a huge advantage that wasn't seen before ... or really since either.

The Oilers added Peca and Pronger that same off season if I remember correctly.

No it wasn't normal. I remember the Amonte and McCarty signings and then Darryl saying he wasn't done yet. And then a day or two later, Hamrlik is signed for cheap. Those were heady times. It's as shame Amonte fell off such a cliff because that 2006 team needed his goal scoring badly.

IIRC Iginla was making $7 million per on a $39 million salary cap. So like having a $15 million player today. Those were different times.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No it wasn't normal. I remember the Amonte and McCarty signings and then Darryl saying he wasn't done yet. And then a day or two later, Hamrlik is signed for cheap. Those were heady times. It's as shame Amonte fell off such a cliff because that 2006 team needed his goal scoring badly.

IIRC Iginla was making $7 million per on a $39 million salary cap. So like having a $15 million player today. Those were different times.

The Hamrlik deal was cool because no one saw it coming. I don't recall any rumors or speculation that he would sign here. Then boom.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not sure Daryl was the type of person that would pack his bags and quit. It's clear after the hiring of Feaster that ownership was leaning to firing him and King being a massive Daryl fan was likely trying to make his exit as gracious as possible.

Yes, you and those who jumped on this before you all should know what I meant. I didn’t say he quit.

Obviously the organization decided the ‘win now’ window was closing, it was time to blow it up and rebuild, and they were parting ways, and they went the ‘stepping down’ route.

As much as many of you want to say that he was fired, neither he nor the Flames said so. They had internal conversations. The Flames gave him the option to step down. They agreed, he stepped down.

Most GMs are fired. Al Coates was fired.

Sutter stepped down. There is a difference

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yes, you and those who jumped on this before you all should know what I meant. I didn’t say he quit.

Obviously the organization decided the ‘win now’ window was closing, it was time to blow it up and rebuild, and they were parting ways, and they went the ‘stepping down’ route.

As much as many of you want to say that he was fired, neither he nor the Flames said so. They had internal conversations. The Flames gave him the option to step down. They agreed, he stepped down.

Most GMs are fired. Al Coates was fired.

Sutter stepped down. There is a difference

When you are given the option to step down that's a polite way of saying we are firing you.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When you are given the option to step down that's a polite way of saying we are firing you.

Some people are not fans of nuance, that is fine

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yes, you and those who jumped on this before you all should know what I meant. I didn’t say he quit.

Obviously the organization decided the ‘win now’ window was closing, it was time to blow it up and rebuild, and they were parting ways, and they went the ‘stepping down’ route.

As much as many of you want to say that he was fired, neither he nor the Flames said so. They had internal conversations. The Flames gave him the option to step down. They agreed, he stepped down.

Most GMs are fired. Al Coates was fired.

Sutter stepped down. There is a difference

Unfortunately I can think of someone else that should not have been granted this option.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I feel like I am eating crazy pills and would be interested in seeing the demographic of this poll, which I know is not an option

You will get a kick out of this look at Coates’ dismal draft performance

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/06/21/f...ory-al-coates/

There is a reason people regularly use the word Fata and Al Coates brought him to you

This is where I am at. I guess ultimately just have to accept that for many people the chaos of the ending of Sutter's tenure supercedess all that he accomplished. That's not how I see it, but this is a popular vote exercise after all.

Once you accept that, it's a debate between Coates and Treliving. Which is based mostly on what could have been, or could be. Neither have accomplished much.

As for the now nearly 11% that think BT is the greatest GM in franchise history? Maybe time to put his suit jacket in the rafters or something.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Again it’s not just the chaos of his final year. The poor drafting was a problem for his entire tenure.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again it’s not just the chaos of his final year. The poor drafting was a problem for his entire tenure.

What did he do about it? Oh, right. Built up a scouting organization

Same idea, you could credit him for building that potential, like the on ice potential (?) for which we look to be crediting Tre

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

What did he do about it? Oh, right. Built up a scouting organization

And yet continued year after year to draft plugs with little or no potential. Merely building the scouting staff was clearly not enough.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

And yet continued year after year to draft plugs with little or no potential. Merely building the scouting staff was clearly not enough.

Not in this bizarro world

If he gets no love for pretty much instantly revitalizing a dead franchise, with several good moves, making game 7 finals, and making it a perennial contender, why on earth would people care about his longer term contributions as well

No, let’s see if Coates, drafter of Fata, 0/8 in top 100 picks in 1997 gets the nod

Lol

[Hanna Sniper]

I find it funny that some believe its the GM's job to scout and draft players

[SportsJunky]

Sutter will get his due in the coach’s poll. As a GM, he left a little to be desired imo.

[corporatejay]

Sutter got people to want to play here again instead of getting other team's castaways. Part of that was the cap, part of it was returning professionalism to the organization.

[FireGilbert]

Went with Coates last time so have to vote for him again. The evidence is surely mounting he did a commendable job in a bad situation. Assembling a young core of Iginla (HoF), Regehr (3x team Canada best on best), St. Louis (HoF), Savard (first line center with career 0.87 points per game), and Giguere (Conn Smythe) is better than most other GMs in the 90s.

As far as Sutter goes the first half of his tenure was on the level of Fletcher while the 2nd half was closer to Risebrough. I have him slated next.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Went with Coates last time so have to vote for him again. The evidence is surely mounting he did a commendable job in a bad situation. Assembling a young core of Iginla (HoF), Regehr (3x team Canada best on best), St. Louis (HoF), Savard (first line center with career 0.87 points per game), and Giguere (Conn Smythe) is better than most other GMs in the 90s.

As far as Sutter goes the first half of his tenure was on the level of Fletcher while the 2nd half was closer to Risebrough. I have him slated next.

The 2nd half was bad? I’d say the last full year.