Brad "Frickin" Treliving

[Sandman]

People wanting Treliving out should give thier heads a shake-he's one of the top-10 GM's in the league according to the Hockey News. If you want to judge some of the bad moves he's done, look at moves AFTER Burke left-the Brouwer signing was a Burke move for sure, Treliving would've never signed him with the advanced stats he had. Even so, Brouwer was one of the top FA's in a weak FA class that year, and signing him was seen as a coup by most fans and pundits. Neal and Jagr went even further-most fans were extatic when they were signed (both huge coups) and got down on Tre when they didn't work out.

Furthermore, we had the best season in franchise history since at least the early 90's, and the playoff exit wasn't his fault either-I don't think many fans thought we'd go down to the Avs. I don't believe for a second he's on a short leash.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Transplant, why do you think Lucic sucks? What information are you using as the basis for your assessment? Is it from you personally watching him? His production point wise?

There’s some pretty good statistical evidence that shows he’s a fairly solid 2-way player who suffered a pretty rough year from an execution perspective in some pretty terrible circumstances. I think there’s good reason to believe he’ll bring more to the Flames than Neal did in 18/19.

If an Oiler fan had posted this two days ago, we would have collectively laughed at them. Deservedly so.

I get that people are grasping to find positives, that's fine. But using shot-based stats to argue against people stating the obvious was a fools errand when people claimed Gulutzans Flames were about to turn it around (when they were actually on the verge of collapse), and it's a fools errand now. Just don't do it.

Lucic hasn't been actually good for years, even when he used to put up points.

Even if he manages to be a serviceable fourth liner, Lucic will still cost more than a Neal buyout + the price of a fourth liner.

The odds of a player bouncing back after two seasons are virtually nonexistent. When has that ever happened?

[djsFlames]

Lucic had passable advanced stats on one of the worst teams if not the worst.

I don't think he'll be a detriment here in a 3rd line role. Whereas I think Neal was.

Won't be worth 5+ million, but will add rather than detract from what the team is trying to accomplish on the ice.

I hate that people are crapping on Treliving's reputation because of this move. It hasn't even played out yet. I think it's incredibly short sighted and premature. The Carolina trade easily overshadows anything Neal related, as that took the team to another level. This trade at worst won't even take them a step back. So I think some here need to stfu and gain some perspective.

[bubbsy]

I really like treliving, and yes, there's always a 'wait and see' approach to everything.

That being said, taking on one of the worst contracts in the league, with the sweetner being a 3rd round pick that materializes in a worst scenario case, obviously leaves the GM ripe and vulnerable to skepticism.

Frankly, at this, the only folks i see even remotely defending the move are hardcore flames fans.

[Heavy Jack]

The one argument I don’t get is the buyout Neal instead argument; paying him close to 2 million for 8 years doesn’t offset the savings we’d have over 4 years IMO even with the cap going up. Plus it wouldn’t do us favours in terms of attracting bigger name UFA’s in the future if we show were willing to buyout after one year.

We traded a bad contract for a bad contract who has specific need for our lineup.
Lucic fits in well IMO.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Itse

If an Oiler fan had posted this two days ago, we would have collectively laughed at them. Deservedly so.

I get that people are grasping to find positives, that's fine. But using shot-based stats to argue against people stating the obvious was a fools errand when people claimed Gulutzans Flames were about to turn it around (when they were actually on the verge of collapse), and it's a fools errand now. Just don't do it.

Lucic hasn't been actually good for years, even when he used to put up points.

Even if he manages to be a serviceable fourth liner, Lucic will still cost more than a Neal buyout + the price of a fourth liner.

The odds of a player bouncing back after two seasons are virtually nonexistent. When has that ever happened?

Dustin Brown is a fine example and similar player who looked absolutely done before putting together 2 impressive seasons in a row.

There is a huge difference looking at Lucic through Oiler hate and now Flames guarded optimism. If an Oiler fan posted that a week ago they would have been slaughtered because he is an Oiler. People look for ways to give criticism to McDavid because he wears that jersey.

[The Cobra]

Many wanted Treliving fired after Hamilton was traded, and now that's considered a franchise changing trade.

No one here knows what constraints Treliving may have been under when he made this trade, and he's earned the right to see how this plays out.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I really like treliving, and yes, there's always a 'wait and see' approach to everything.

That being said, taking on one of the worst contracts in the league, with the sweetner being a 3rd round pick that materializes in a worst scenario case, obviously leaves the GM ripe and vulnerable to skepticism.

Frankly, at this, the only folks i see even remotely defending the move are hardcore flames fans.

What I see is a small but extremely vocal group that is trashing it repeatedly. Otherwise, most seem to be in the "meh, bad contract for bad contract" camp.

Similarly, with the Hamilton trade, the polls actually showed fairly solid support for the trade. The discussion threads, on the other hand, were dominated by a fairly small, but extremely vocal and persistent group of nay-sayers.

[Moneyhands23]

Morning show on 960 said they will have BT on a phone call tomorrow. If anyone is interested

[SniperJ]

I loved Tree's quote..."you can't jam a square peg into a round hole"

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I really like treliving, and yes, there's always a 'wait and see' approach to everything.

That being said, taking on one of the worst contracts in the league, with the sweetner being a 3rd round pick that materializes in a worst scenario case, obviously leaves the GM ripe and vulnerable to skepticism.

Frankly, at this, the only folks i see even remotely defending the move are hardcore flames fans.

He also traded one of the worst contracts in the league and switched the salary positions so that Edmonton has the higher cap hit as a result. The conditional third is just a hedge against Neal production, as opposed to a sweetener, IMO.

[Bingo]

I'm not going to criticize those that don't like Treliving by quoting their posts and picking them apart ...

What guy has 100% support of a fan base?

I personally like the way the guy thinks, and feel the franchise is in good hands because of him leading it.

Part of that is the fact that he followed up the Feaster era where I didn't feel the same. It felt unhinged and scary.

In his time he's improved their draft record, signed players to amazing RFA deals giving him the cap space to supplement the roster. His trade record has been excellent and the team has improved finishing 2nd place in the entire league last year. All pretty hard to argue.

His Gulutzan pick was a mistake in the end, but all mistakes aren't bad choices, they can be bad outcomes. He was a proven assistant that had a possession angle to his teams, and from comments it turns out his issue was not being firm enough as a head coach. Peters is certainly more firm.

The UFA market has had it's foibles for sure, and they need to clean that up. But Frolik, Ryan and Engelland were great signings and are often over looked.

This week he avoided a buy out, saved his ownership somewhere around $15M in actual dollars and found a player that is more likely to fit in Calgary than what they had. Would I prefer neither Lucic or Neal on the Flames? Absolutely. But now he's solved toughness and looks to have solved a dressing room problem as well.

Owners don't let GMs go for 2nd overall teams, and a move to save actual dollars.

[8sPOT]

I was on vacation while this happened. But what’s the harm here? Both players are bottom 6 players, and we get some cap space. Obviously Neal has more potential between the two players but like Hamilton he just didn’t fit. So instead of paying him $5.75M to sit in the press box or play a bottom 6 role, we pay a tougher, actual bottom 6 player $5.25M. Don’t really mind it at all other than the fact it’s a trade with the Oilers.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You mean like giving your biggest UFA signing in history more than 63 games instead of trading him for one of the very worst players/contracts in the league?

Exactly why this seems like a complete panic move.

Doesn’t seem like a panic move at all. Did you watch James Neal? He had no place on this team. He HAD to be dealt or bought out. And I’m guessing Treliving didn’t have a free pass to buy him out. He had to be dealt and it would always be for another bad contract unless you wanted Treliving to waste a 1st rounder just to get rid of Neal. The move is the opposite of panic, looks quite calculated.

You continue to have a dramatic overreaction. We’ll continue to call you out on it.

[bax]

I think it was said in the Lucic thread, but honestly if Kadri would have waived his no trade clause this teams would have been so much fun to watch with all the chaos creators on the team. I still think we need one more top 6 guy that isn't afraid to muck it up to get there, but I think there will chemistry benefits of having Lucic here.

[The Yen Man]

I find there are so much overdramatic hand wringing from some for what essentially is a bad contract for bad contract trade. Yes, we took on a crap contract, but we swapped it with another one.

This could be a trade where both sides don't lose (can't really say both sides "win" since it's essentially crap for crap right now until proven otherwise). I feel like both guys will fit better on their new teams.

As for the whole needing to protect him at the expansion draft, I'm guessing Tre has some sort of agreement worked out with Lucic on him waiving since it's not like Seattle's going to take the guy.

[Enoch Root]

Agree or disagree with the moves, the one thing I do NOT see is panic. Brad Treliving is pretty much the antithesis of panic or desperation.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Dustin Brown is a fine example and similar player who looked absolutely done before putting together 2 impressive seasons in a row.

Granted. Although Brown never dipped quite that deep, he also had about four bad seasons before bouncing back.

There is a huge difference looking at Lucic through Oiler hate and now Flames guarded optimism. If an Oiler fan posted that a week ago they would have been slaughtered because he is an Oiler. People look for ways to give criticism to McDavid because he wears that jersey.

Yeah I get guarded optimism.

But those shot-based stats... I've seen optimism based on those too many times, and it basically never works out.

[Beninho]

Lol some people are so angry about this trade. Wait for the damn season to start before posting stupid ####

Very happy Neal is off the team. What a pathetic season he had. For someone who was labeled as a goal scorer he had the softest shot on the whole damn team.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flash Walken]

I don't see Panic and Desperation as the same thing.

Panic is like a sudden realization or motivation, like finding out Roman Cervenka is a winger and not a centre after you've signed him to a contract expecting him to play C.

Desperation though is sort of the opposite. It's a conclusion reached long after panic. The loss of hope. The belief that there will be no other opportunity to proceed with a given action or direction.

I see Lucic for Neal as desperation. There was very little hope of being able to trade Neal for anything other than Lucic. They had probably exhausted as many different scenarios as existed. The desperation sets in on 'what if this is our last chance to move this guy'.

On July 19th, it's not Panic that consummates the trade, it's the Desperation of understanding this is your best and only shot.