[Signing] Sabres re-sign Jeff Skinner (8 yrs, $9 mil aav, full NMC)

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I know one thing....this deal makes Matt Duchene very happy.

No kidding. He's definitely aiming for $10+ million now.

[djsFlames]

Jesus 9 million.

They've lost their minds.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

This is going to be the worst contract in the NHL at some point. Just a pitiful move by a desperate team.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by timbit

Skinner’s or any other UFA contract cannot be used as a comparable to any RFA contract, literally and figuratively. A RFA going to arbitration cannot use a UFA contract as a comparable

The closer a team gets to losing an currently owned but prospective UFA player, the more likely a premium will have to be paid by the team holding his rights.
Factor in the said asset (player) replacement cost , should the UFA walk, and the additional salary and premium to keep him starts to make sense.

Moral of the story is get core player’s second and / or third contracts heading towards UFA done as early as possible and reduce team expense and exposure. The longer you wait, the more expensive it gets for the team to retain the player and/or replace him.

Treliving has done an excellent job of getting potential UFA core Flames players under contract early and to very reasonable terms and amounts.

Still leaves one wondering if Skinner could have gotten 9m elsewhere. For a player of his stature if he gets injured, or his production drops off the Sabres will have another Milan Lucic on their hands. I can't see this ending well for them.

[FlamesAddiction]

I feel like Skinner’s 200’ game is being overstated by some in order to try and rationalize this deal. His 200’ game is adequate, but it’s not like he is a Bergeron or even a Marchand. No one was going to sign Skinner for his 200’ game. He is all about those 50-60 points he will get you if he stays healthy. And even then, it would only be a reasonable expectation for the next 3 or 4 years.

He should not be a $9 million player. This deal is all about Buffalo having no self-respect and begging to be loved.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by timbit

Skinner’s or any other UFA contract cannot be used as a comparable to any RFA contract, literally and figuratively. A RFA going to arbitration cannot use a UFA contract as a comparable

going to arbitration, yes, however, ufa contracts ARE used as comparables during rfa negotiations that buy UFA years.

Matthew Tkachuk isn't going to be able to take Skinner's UFA contract into an arbitration hearing, but his agent will damn sure use it as a comparison for what a contract longer than 4 years should look like in terms of salary in years 5, 6,7,8.

Tkachuk has outscored Skinner in each of the last 2 years and finished with just 6 less goals than skinner this year. If Treliving wants a UFA year from Tkachuk, that UFA year number is going to start with a 9.

The Draisaitl deal for example is top end expensive because it buys all available UFA years.

The closer a team gets to losing an currently owned but prospective UFA player, the more likely a premium will have to be paid by the team holding his rights.
Factor in the said asset (player) replacement cost , should the UFA walk, and the additional salary and premium to keep him starts to make sense.

This is a result of Commitment Bias, the perception that making increasingly wrong decisions is preferable than altering course and perhaps suffering shorter term pain to avoid longer term pain. In the world of Buffalo GM tenures, Botterill has seen what's happened with Tim Murray and understands the lifespan of his GM tenure is going to be shorter than the outcome of any of these contracts. It's personally beneficial to not have Skinner leave via free agency, even though it may conflict with the long-term health of the organization.

Moral of the story is get core player’s second and / or third contracts heading towards UFA done as early as possible and reduce team expense and exposure. The longer you wait, the more expensive it gets for the team to retain the player and/or replace him.

I think the moral of the story is actually to have multiple courses of action prepared for a variety of results. The Sabres have been a disaster of long term planning and I think have illustrated the serious potential harm that can be done to a franchise with a wild approach to free agency.

Their trade history is absolutely bizarre, with no orientation of whether they are rebuilding or going for it. Hiring and firing Housley in a 2 year period and not making the playoffs since, brace for it, 2011, and not having won a series since 2007.

That fanbase is not going to know the difference between a team with skinner and without unless he's part of the winning formula in Buffalo which did not seem to manifest itself this season at all outside of an improbable series of games.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Jesus 9 million.

They've lost their minds.

Or maybe Pegula is trying to stick it to his rival Maple Leafs in signing their wingers Marner, Johnsson and Kapanen

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by timbit

Skinner’s or any other UFA contract cannot be used as a comparable to any RFA contract, literally and figuratively. A RFA going to arbitration cannot use a UFA contract as a comparable

Not in arbitration, but I'll bet that Tkachuk's agent has already told Treliving that his client is twice the player Skinner is, and if Skinner is worth $9 million, then so is Tkachuk. Terrible contracts like this just make everyone else's job harder.

[Badgers Nose]

Haha, what the worst that could happen? Sabres sponsored by bad idea jeans.

[DJones]

Make's no sense to me. Let him walk for that. Like they even gave him the NMC and signing bonus. How did he get that? I can't believe that someone else would have beat this contract.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by huntingwhale

good lord. 9 million for a player who's career max is 63pts? Brutal. Thank you skinner for potentially f'ing up tkachuks contract negotiations. I mean, good for him to get that much. He has the best agent ever. But that's oileresque.

ufa != rfa

The Skinner contract has zero impact on the Tkachuk negotiations. They aren’t comparable players.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Not in arbitration, but I'll bet that Tkachuk's agent has already told Treliving that his client is twice the player Skinner is, and if Skinner is worth $9 million, then so is Tkachuk. Terrible contracts like this just make everyone else's job harder.

UFA contracts and RFA contracts are not comparable. Not sure how many times this has to be mentioned.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

UFA contracts and RFA contracts are not comparable. Not sure how many times this has to be mentioned.

At least twice, consecutively within a 6 minute span.

[ricardodw]

Skinner got extra $$$$$$ because he might be a playoff stud.

We might never know.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

UFA contracts and RFA contracts are not comparable. Not sure how many times this has to be mentioned.

Technically a player can use whatever measuring stick they want to try and negotiate a contract. In an arbitration case, an arbitrator can’t consider a UFA contract as a comparable, but not every RFA contract negotiation is an arbitration case.

All contracts can have an effect on the overall salary structure to a degree.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

ufa != rfa

The Skinner contract has zero impact on the Tkachuk negotiations. They aren’t comparable players.

You don’t think every contract affects all negotiations?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

You don’t think every contract affects all negotiations?

Well obviously not.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

You don’t think every contract affects all negotiations?

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Technically a player can use whatever measuring stick they want to try and negotiate a contract. In an arbitration case, an arbitrator can’t consider a UFA contract as a comparable, but not every RFA contract negotiation is an arbitration case.

All contracts can have an effect on the overall salary structure to a degree.

Disagree. Agents use comparable in their negotiations from what I understand of how it goes down. A comparable player would be someone of a similar age, with a similar contract status who has comparable numbers. GM’s will also pick comparables that support their case. Its very similar to the comparables in arbitration.

Tkachuk’s agent cannot use Skinner as a comparable player as they aren’t comparable. If anything Eichel’s 2nd contract is much more comparable to Tkachuk although they do play different positions so the comparison falters a touch.

[jayswin]

^^^^^^^

So you don't think an RFA who is going into UFA years in his contract can use a UFA as comparable for at least those years (aka Tkachuk's agent using Skinners contract for 3 UFA years that Brad may want).

That doesn't pass the bull**** test in my eyes, but you seem pretty confident, if not condescending in your knowledge of how it works, so I guess we'll defer to you unless someone else knows.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Tkachuk’s agent cannot use Skinner as a comparable player as they aren’t comparable.

Actually, his agent can do whatever he wants. It's not an arbitration hearing. Much like Treliving can use what he wants and can ignore what he wants.