[Rumour] TSN: Peters status. Shake up trade. Hamonic's future

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by transplant99

As much as I agree a lot of this current debacle is on BT as the guy who cobbled together this tire fire we are witnessing, there is absolutely ZERO chance they are letting him go at seasons end. He was just given a multi-year extension about 7 weeks ago, and they are not going to pay him the entire length of that contract not to work for them. Just not realistic.

I don't disagree that it probably won't happen but I feel if the team is serious about being a cup winning team its vital. It was a HUGE mistake to give him an extension when he has proven nothing.

The only thing he has proven is that he is out of touch with what wins cups in this league. 6 years of inconsistent and mediocre on ice product. 1 year make the playoffs and lose rather quickly, the next year miss, the never ending cycle.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Oh good, give him lots of runway to make things worse so that the next GM is starting from less than scratch.

Or better? That's possible right?

The guy has made a few good moves since taking over this franchise so maybe just maybe he can actually help things?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CGY12

I don't disagree that it probably won't happen but I feel if the team is serious about being a cup winning team its vital. It was a HUGE mistake to give him an extension when he has proven nothing.

The only thing he has proven is that he is out of touch with what wins cups in this league. 6 years of inconsistent and mediocre on ice product. 1 year make the playoffs and lose rather quickly, the next year miss, the never ending cycle.

The team finished 2nd overall last year ...

That isn't improving a team or building something?

Have you guys all been thinking Treliving has had to go all summer, but just waited for a skid to bring it up?

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Or better? That's possible right?

The guy has made a few good moves since taking over this franchise so maybe just maybe he can actually help things?

They just need to hire someone who slaps him every time he thinks about signing an older FA to a multi year deal, or sign/trade for an ex-oiler.

[chedder]

The thing that bugs me about Treliving is he talks the talk of building a fast, tough, big, hard to play against team but has done absolutely nothing to go that way. I'd argue he has, in fact, gone the opposite way. Look how many small and non physical players on the roster. Especially in the bottom six. Even the bigger bodies we do have are cream puffs. Janko, Backlund are prime examples.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Oh good, give him lots of runway to make things worse so that the next GM is starting from less than scratch.

Im not sure it plays out that way.

Most guys on the GM hot seat make those desperate deals (Sutter) in an effort to save their jobs. With BT knowing he will be back, that shouldn't play out that way here. He has the rope to step back and truly assess not only what went wrong on the ice, but his own role in it occurring. I guarantee he would like a do over on the Lucic/Neal thing as an example, and privately would admit as much.

So although much of what's going on can be directly and indirectly attributed to choices he has made. He has shown more than a willingness to try and correct those issues and with that extension in his back pocket acting as a vote confidence by proxy from ownership, he can approach this thing differently than a majority of guys who find themselves in similar situations.

There is no quick fix for whatever the hell is actually going on with the guys in the room, but BT needs to identify what it is precisely and have the long-term security to deal with it moving forward. I think that's pretty close to how it plays out as well.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Muffins

They just need to hire someone who slaps him every time he thinks about signing an older FA to a multi year deal, or sign/trade for an ex-oiler.

I will do it for per diem money.

Ken King? You can just PM me to settle all the details.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The team finished 2nd overall last year ...

That isn't improving a team or building something?

Have you guys all been thinking Treliving has had to go all summer, but just waited for a skid to bring it up?

The team has been in a cycle where they make the playoffs 1 year and miss the next, which is what we are trending to this year again. The team hasn't made the playoffs in 2 consecutive years during his tenure.

Also IMO, this team doesn't have the correct build to win in crunch time. They were average at best down the stretch last season when the league turned it up a notch and we all saw what happened in the playoffs.

I honestly just don't see this team being anywhere close to being a cup winning team. Winning in the playoffs is vastly different from winning in November, December, January and February, case in point last season.

Speed is the biggest problem on this team.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Clearly not ...

But the Lightning and Flames are certainly not the first or second team to have a good window going with a misstep season.

I was never comparing the rosters, I was comparing the season to season results, which are / were quite similar.

They aren't similar at all. The lightning had gone to the freakin' conference final the year before and the freakin' cup final the year before that and then their best player got hurt the following year and played just 17 games and the lightning still put up a 94 point season with a plethora of AMAZING young players coming into the lineup. The lightning had a .588 w pct at the time Stamkos got hurt and finished a single point out of a playoff spot even though they had 2 more wins than the last wildcard team.

The Flames have a basically full and healthy roster doing nothing at all on pace for about 75 points with basically zero young stars on the horizon at all.

Do the Flames have a 40 point in 60 game Brayden Point in the lineup right now? Are they missing 40 goals from their lineup because their first line C is injured? Do they have a Jonathan Drouin level prospect that they can just trade away because of how asset rich they are?

The two teams aren't even remotely close. If you can't see that, I don't know what else to tell you.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CGY12

The team has been in a cycle where they make the playoffs 1 year and miss the next, which is what we are trending to this year again. The team hasn't made the playoffs in 2 consecutive years during his tenure.

Also IMO, this team doesn't have the correct build to win in crunch time. They were average at best down the stretch last season when the league turned it up a notch and we all saw what happened in the playoffs.

I honestly just don't see this team being anywhere close to being a cup winning team. Winning in the playoffs is vastly different from winning in November, December, January and February, case in point last season.

Speed is the biggest problem on this team.

I think he thinks in a similar way or he wouldn't have been in on Zucker and Kadri

You don't pick up players like that unless you have a concern that your team lacks the jam or fortitude to win when the games get tough.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Clearly not ...

But the Lightning and Flames are certainly not the first or second team to have a good window going with a misstep season.

I was never comparing the rosters, I was comparing the season to season results, which are / were quite similar.

They didn't fire their coach, or their GM, or move out their best player.

Right, but your mention of moving their best player (or lack there-of), is specifically what I spoke to in reply.

They did move some complimentary players in JT Miller & Ryan Callahan, which are not to dissimilar to the almost trades of Brodie, Jankowski, & Frolik.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Right, but your mention of moving their best player (or lack there-of), is specifically what I spoke to in reply.

They did move some complimentary players in JT Miller & Ryan Callahan, which are not to dissimilar to the [i]almost trades[/] of Brodie, Jankowski, & Frolik.

Which I think is bound to happen here ... but maybe a bit deeper.

I don't know if you can move those three and change the non push back culture here.

They got the stuffing beat out of them mentally in the playoffs, and the leadership group hasn't been able to lead them out of it since.

[Travis Munroe]

Bold prediction time and I am singing a much different tune than I have during previous flames struggles.

1) Treliving doesn't go anywhere. For the most part, he has been a great GM. He has made some bad moves but as you look across the league, many GM's have made bad moves. None of the bad moves are really holding us back right now. Sure some added cap space from not signing Neal would allow another great player but this team finished 2nd last year so the talent is there.

2) Peters isn't going anywhere. He is my favorite coach from the revolving door of coaches and firing the coach is sending the wrong message. He coached this team to 2nd in the regular season last year and his system was fun hockey to watch.

3) No major trades take place. I really like the makeup of this team and what it has to offer from top to bottom.

My take on the current problem and fixing it

1) Gaudreau is playing like garbage but it won't last. Trading him would be a major regret. The problem is, when Gaudreau plays poorly, it isn't just him but he brings his linemates down as he is the engine that drives his line. Lindholm has slowed down but much of this has been due to being on Johnys line for the most part. How frustrating is Lindholm to constantly watch Johny fail at bringing the puck into the zone or try a risky pass that gets picked off. Gaudreau needs to go to the 4th line which is more of a message than the press box and allows for added use if Peters sees fit.

2) During a slump like this, everyone is trying to do too much. The Lucic line is as simple and boring of hockey as it gets but this is perfect from your 3rd line. All 4 lines need to abandon the open ice run and gun we tried last night. Get back to defence first and take away all high danger chances against we are giving up early and often. Under no circumstances should anyone be cheating leaving the zone. The puck carrier should be the first or second out of our own zone. Right now it seems that teams press us in our own zone and the forwards have all cleared out looking for a breakout pass. One bad pass and its a 3-2 against.

3) Correct the breakout to what we saw more of last year. Ditch the dump & chase and get back to the "layers" we played with last year. How many goals were scored from the 3rd layer receiving a back pass wide open in the slot.

4) When making a line change, forget about this dump it in. There is nothing wrong with kicking it back to your d man and making a line change. Possession has been a killer this year and fighting to get possession in our own zone only to dump it in for a change just gives the other team the puck.

5) Johny's spot on the PP changes. he should only possess the puck down low and behind the net. Let his creativity work from down low where he can use the net to his benefit. No more shots from the sidewall which inevitably end up missing and wrapping around out of our zone.


Johny is one of my favorite flames so I hate blaming him but so much of this slump is caused by goals against where he leaves our zone early, makes a poor pass or holds onto the puck too long. Other teams have figured him out and swarm him. He needs to watch Patrick Kane and how Kane uses that his benefit to make safe plays to other guys and get into an open spot to receive the puck again. Instead, he loses it or in a situation where he does get the puck to someone else, he is caught standing in concrete.

Tkachuck - Lindholm - Mangiapane (if he is ok)
Backlund - Monahan - Frolik
Lucic - Ryan - Dube
Gaudreau - Ronaldo - Reider

Almost every player receives a promotion of sort to excite them.
Line 1 has a set up guy with a sniper with Mangiapane who has the effort level not everyone is bringing.
Line 2 is a good defensive line with Backlund being a great passer to Monahan who can (in previous years) pick his spot.
Line 3 has proven themselves already
Line 4 -Gaudreau can be a 1 man show without bringing down his linemates and will be up against lesser skilled lines against him. He gets the speed of Reider to have someone up in the play with him.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I'd rather Peters and Treliving stay put.

On Peters, he managed to get this team to second overall last year and deserves a chance to grow with the team. We can say he was outcoached in the playoffs last year, but the play of the team this year suggests there's more to it.

On Treliving, I think he's been good. There is a point where this team has to accumulate picks and develop the farm into a strong resource. The absence of a Stone deal last year had a lot to do with that vision, imo. Other issue with replacing Treliving is who do you bring in? Is he so bad that you risk bringing in someone worse?

The players on this roster have to go through this so that we can see who will sink and who will swim. Only then will we solidify an identity and a character to this team. Arguably, Treliving's biggest mistakes have come from trying to import that identity (Brouwer, Neal, Lucic). Change the coach *and* GM now and we just postpone that process... and we might be no happier about the outcome.

[Toonage]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1197963196948193280

https://twitter.com/user/status/1197964315338444800

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Toonage

https://twitter.com/user/status/1197963196948193280

So this is the group unless a team wants Janko, Kylington, Frolik or maybe Brodie/Hamomic.

[Toonage]

He seems to have identified the hill he might die on.

[Kidder]

Fair enough Tre.

So if this group of players and coach fails to get it done, it’s on you.

I would expect a resignation then at that time. Honorable thing to do.

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I don't think its a coaching issue this year. I speculating locker room issues.

I agree, and I was the guys who said that we should Not have brought, Bill peters in. I honesty believe that it’s locker room or potentially, or higher up.


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[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by Toonage

https://twitter.com/user/status/1197963196948193280

https://twitter.com/user/status/1197964315338444800

Oh great. So basically, much like last season, he can’t/ won’t be making any moves.


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