The Deal With Geoff Ward

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1364994093126848515

Odds are Travis Green is the next coach that is fired. Am I crazy to think that Green is heads and tails better than Ward?

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

Am I crazy to think that Green is heads and tails better than Ward?

No

[kukkudo]

Haha just wait Green gets fired and becomes the Flames new coach.

[GioforPM]

Green has a weird history for a guy with such a good rep: AC with Portland except for a half year as HC (Mike Johnson was HC before and after - I'm not sure if he got sick or what). He won a championship in that year, but was it his team or Johnson's? Then 4 years in Utica where he was out of POs twice, lost once in the first round and had a run to the finals in between. That year he had a pretty veteran team for the AHL, and he had Markstrom. Then in Vancouver he's missed the POs twice (and was below .500) but last year had a decent run.

[Classic_Sniper]

Last night was one of the first games I’ve seen this team be extremely committed to defending and not over committing leaving themselves vulnerable. I’m sure the reason was the opponent, but it was definitely interesting to see them switch up to a more conservative strategy against a dangerous opponent. Although the PK was extremely aggressive which is a welcome change as well. Hope this team continues to make adjustments on pending their opponent, should keep them constantly on their toes.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't think the team is "elite" but these coaches certainly aren't getting the most out of the group that an elite coach likely would.

Only one way to find out, but for some reason Treliving refuses to do it.

“Getting the most of out of the group” is just buzzwords. I mean seriously, how long would you expect this to even last? Bill Peters got the most out of this group out of anyone in his first season, but then got almost nothing out of them in his final year with the same group of players. Then Ward stepped in and they won 7 straight. Made the playoffs, but now, once again, here we are seeing the exact same story play out again. This core group starts out strong but eventually they revert back to their default, uninspired ways.


Also, here are some direct quotes from Treliving himself on Geoff Ward when he lifted the interim tag off and hired Geoff full time:

“I want to be real clear – Geoff is not the coach here because it’s the path of least resistance or just because he was here... You want to make sure you’ve got the very best person for the position. That’s why I wanted to step back and have those conversations with him about where we’re at and where we’re going and how we’re going to get there...It took us a little bit of time to get through that process and here we are. People will talk about people with bigger names out there, but I’m looking for the best coach for this team. He has the ability to be a top coach in this league and that’s what makes it exciting.”

Seems Treliving’s idea of “best” and “elite” coach differs from the average fan.

[Toonage]

nm

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I pulled together a view of the major stats (5v5) with the last 4 Flames head coaches.

Matches the eye test to me. Getting hemmed in their own zone a lot more and their Corsi Against, and Shots Against per 60 at 5v5 are way up. Likely due to the collapse system they play in their own end.

Offensively they are generating High Danger chances at a similar rate to before, but their shot totals and shot attempts are both down. Overall in terms of advanced stats Corsi For is still the best measure of future success for a team, and this team is way worse in that area playing Ward's system.

Honestly if not for Ward having the 6th best save percentage in the league in this time we'd be getting dummied. For a team that supposed to be playing a more defensive, playoff style system we sure seem to be giving up a lot more shots against.

6th best save percentage yet still only the 15th best point percentage. He's getting less out of a better roster than Gulutzan did, with the only difference is he has elite goaltending and better shooting percentage.

To anyone who doesn't think a coach doesn't have a (massive) impact on a team's performance, please look at this chart.

There is probably no single bigger piece for long-term success.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

“Getting the most of out of the group” is just buzzwords. I mean seriously, how long would you expect this to even last? Bill Peters got the most out of this group out of anyone in his first season, but then got almost nothing out of them in his final year with the same group of players. Then Ward stepped in and they won 7 straight. Made the playoffs, but now, once again, here we are seeing the exact same story play out again. This core group starts out strong but eventually they revert back to their default, uninspired ways.


Also, here are some direct quotes from Treliving himself on Geoff Ward when he lifted the interim tag off and hired Geoff full time:

“I want to be real clear – Geoff is not the coach here because it’s the path of least resistance or just because he was here... You want to make sure you’ve got the very best person for the position. That’s why I wanted to step back and have those conversations with him about where we’re at and where we’re going and how we’re going to get there...It took us a little bit of time to get through that process and here we are. People will talk about people with bigger names out there, but I’m looking for the best coach for this team. He has the ability to be a top coach in this league and that’s what makes it exciting.”

Seems Treliving’s idea of “best” and “elite” coach differs from the average fan.

Well obviously Treliving thinks he is a good coach - or he wouldn't have hired him. That tells us nothing.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well obviously Treliving thinks he is a good coach - or he wouldn't have hired him. That tells us nothing.

I think Treliving not holding a search when he fired Gulutzan and hired Peters tells me a lot about what he looks for in a coach and it’s not past success. Bill Peters was his guy, 100%, Mr Numero Uno. Peters hadn’t even made the playoffs up until that point, but Treliving still wanted him. He liked his style of play and he was an analytics darling. Ward, much like Peters, has a similar philosophy in style of play.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I think Treliving not holding a search when he fired Gulutzan and hired Peters tells me a lot about what he looks for in a coach and it’s not past success. Bill Peters was his guy, 100%, Mr Numero Uno. Peters hadn’t even made the playoffs up until that point, but Treliving still wanted him. He liked his style of play and he was an analytics darling. Ward, much like Peters, has a similar philosophy in style of play.

Yes, we all saw that and know that.

That does not mean that his selection process is good or bad. Nor does it imply that he knows what a good coach is.

He simply said (each time) 'that's my guy'

Well great. Except they haven't been great.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Haha just wait Green gets fired and becomes the Flames new coach.

You just know if Treliving gets another hire it will be John Hynes. He’s everything Treliving looks for in a coaching candidate.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

To anyone who doesn't think a coach doesn't have a (massive) impact on a team's performance, please look at this chart.

There is probably no single bigger piece for long-term success.

The numbers aren't really relevant considering they weren't coaching the same group of players other than maybe Ward/Peters which is close

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well obviously Treliving thinks he is a good coach - or he wouldn't have hired him. That tells us nothing.

To add to that, Treliving’s words give no detail or insight whatsoever as to what he considers right for the group except
- where we are going (not sure where that is)
- how they are getting there (wherever there is, and whatever he means by that)
- something about it being a process

Man, can that guy ever speak without saying a thing, or what?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

https://twitter.com/user/status/1364994093126848515

Odds are Travis Green is the next coach that is fired. Am I crazy to think that Green is heads and tails better than Ward?

A cactus would be heads and tails better than Ward.

[Enoch Root]

Some of the names on that list are bizarre...

VAN, NSH, AZ, BUF... sure

But NYR, OTT, DET, ANA? Really?

And DAL? seriously? They just went to the finals FFS.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, we all saw that and know that.

That does not mean that his selection process is good or bad. Nor does it imply that he knows what a good coach is.

He simply said (each time) 'that's my guy'

Well great. Except they haven't been great.

Well what exactly even makes a “good” coach? Everyone has their own idea as what a good coach is, even the GM. Everyone in here is screaming for an “elite” coach, but what even makes an elite coach? Their salary expectations? A Stanley Cup? Their win-loss record? How does a not so good coach eventually become an elite coach in the first place?

Also, I’m not really here to judge whether Treliving’s coaching choices are good or bad either because quite simply put, how the hell would I know? I’m not a general manager, I’m not a coach, I don’t work in this business. I couldn’t tell you for sure if Geoff Ward is a good coach or not. But what I can say is Treliving thinks he’s a good coach and armed with a new 2 year deal, it doesn’t appear financially likely that Ward will be fired and a big ticket coach will be on his way to finally fulfill CP’s wet dream of getting that elusive “elite” coach.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You just know if Treliving gets another hire it will be John Hynes. He’s everything Treliving looks for in a coaching candidate.

God I had the same scary thought earlier this week

[Inglewood Jack]

At this point I’ll settle for “was a head coach within a year before the Flames, and would be a head coach again within a year after the Flames.”

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Well what exactly even makes a “good” coach? Everyone has their own idea as what a good coach is, even the GM. Everyone in here is screaming for an “elite” coach, but what even makes an elite coach? Their salary expectations? A Stanley Cup? Their win-loss record? How does a not so good coach eventually become an elite coach in the first place?

Also, I’m not really here to judge whether Treliving’s coaching choices are good or bad either because quite simply put, how the hell would I know? I’m not a general manager, I’m not a coach, I don’t work in this business. I couldn’t tell you for sure if Geoff Ward is a good coach or not. But what I can say is Treliving thinks he’s a good coach and armed with a new 2 year deal, it doesn’t appear financially likely that Ward will be fired and a big ticket coach will be on his way to finally fulfill CP’s wet dream of getting that elusive “elite” coach.

Well there isn't one answer to that. And good coaches adapt - to their roster, the competition, the standings, etc.

The most straight-forward measure is: are they getting more, or less out of the roster than what is/should be expected?