The Job Searchers' Thread

[lazypucker]

Wingding is the way to go!

Alternatively, go with the default on Word (I think it is Calibri)

[Bleeding Red]

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but frustration is starting to settle in and I could use some insight/advice, and this is the thread for it.

Quick background - I have been in and out of work for the last 5 years. A few 6-12 month contracts here and there. Over that time I have edited my resume (I have 4 different ones highlighting different skills), seen a career coach, seen employment specialists, had practice interviews with HR specialists, etc.

My wife and I have even tried switching my wardrobe up, thinking that a suit and tie may be too stuffy for 21st century offices. I have had interviews where I am dressed to the nines and the interviewer is in jeans and a t-shirt. Tie / no tie - thoughts?

I am getting interviews - mostly by phone, but 2 in-person before the holidays and 1 just this week. No second interviews though.

My last experience was the oddest. A job had been posted for over a month. I finally decided to apply on Monday. I was asked to interview on Wednesday. I thought it went well and was told I would hear back next week. Got an email today (Friday) thanks, but no thanks.

I am trying to figure out what the issues are. I have experience. I have an industry designation.

Has anyone gone back to the interviewer and asked "why not?" or "any advice?" Any attempt at communication after the interview was met with silence.

Thanks.

[Weitz]

What industry are you looking in? What designation do you have?

I wouldn't wear a tie if you are going to be working in an environment where a tie wouldn't be required. But that's just me. As long as you don't look like a slob no one is tossing you out based on dress.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Weitz

What industry are you looking in? What designation do you have?

I wouldn't wear a tie if you are going to be working in an environment where a tie wouldn't be required. But that's just me. As long as you don't look like a slob no one is tossing you out based on dress.

That's what I figure too. I try to look professional and clean cut, otherwise it shouldn't matter if I wear a jacket or not, right.

I'm a Certified Meeting Planner (CMP) - conferences, trade shows, conventions, seminars, golf tournaments, etc.


My wife thinks part of the issue is "middle aged guy" syndrome.

[red sky]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

My wife and I have even tried switching the wardrobe up.

Not sure if I am the only one but I read this as you putting on a dress for an interview.

I don't think there is harm in calling up the interviewer and asking for more information on why you weren't selected.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

That's what I figure too. I try to look professional and clean cut, otherwise it shouldn't matter if I wear a jacket or not, right.

I'm a Certified Meeting Planner (CMP) - conferences, trade shows, conventions, seminars, golf tournaments, etc.


My wife thinks part of the issue is "middle aged guy" syndrome.

There is certainly that sort of stigma out there right now. Lots of companies are seeing if they can bring in younger people - pay them less - and get the same value out of them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but frustration is starting to settle in and I could use some insight/advice, and this is the thread for it.

Quick background - I have been in and out of work for the last 5 years. A few 6-12 month contracts here and there. Over that time I have edited my resume (I have 4 different ones highlighting different skills), seen a career coach, seen employment specialists, had practice interviews with HR specialists, etc.

It sounds like your doing the right things, It would be interesting to know what field your looking in unless I missed that, because that's a key to this kind of discussion

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

My wife and I have even tried switching the wardrobe up, thinking that a suit and tie may be too stuffy for 21st century offices. I have had interviews where I am dressed to the nines and the interviewer is in jeans and a t-shirt. Tie / no tie - thoughts?

Continue to dress properly, it shows that your engaged and interested and not going through the motions. I did change a couple of things when I was interviewing. I went from suits and ties to sports coats and slacks, and for some organizations I didn't wear a tie. But I never worried about out dressing the interviewer. I did tell one company interviewer that showed up in jeans and a T-shirt for a company that after talking to them I wasn't interested that it felt like he wasn't representing the company in a first meeting that well, and that the whole first impression thing goes both ways.

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I am getting interviews - mostly by phone, but 2 in-person before the holidays and 1 just this week. No second interviews though.

My last experience was the oddest. A job had been posted for over a month. I finally decided to apply on Monday. I was asked to interview on Wednesday. I thought it went well and was told I would hear back next week. Got an email today (Friday) thanks, but no thanks.

Everything comes down to qualification, remember that interviewing for a position is the ultimate sales job. Some people don't really realize that.



When you're in sales qualification through the discussion is key.


Are you asking for feedback throughout the conversation and adjusting your discussion points.


When it comes time when they ask you for your questions there are two things.


If you've done strong pre-preperation you should have some really good key questions about the role, company, product etc, this shows interest and due diligence.


I always ask what they like about working there, and either what they don't like, or what some of the pitfalls are.


I would usually ask for a feedback questions. When I walk out of this interview and you go to get your coffee or tea and that question comes up, "Man I wish I asked that" what question would that be? What don't you know about me or are unsure about now.


Trial close the interview.


Ask them if they think your a good fit for the role based on what they've learned.


Give yourself a chance to understand and over come objections that they might not disclose without prodding.

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I am trying to figure out what the issues are. I have experience. I have an industry designation.

Again we would need to understand your industry. you have to realize that everyone that they interview has the same. How are you standing out in terms of presenting yourself?


Getting a first interview or phone screen really only means that out of a stack of 100 resumes they found 10 or less that stood out for experience and designations, and now they're filtering based on presentation, communication and understanding of the role.

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Has anyone gone back to the interviewer and asked "why not?" or "any advice?" Any attempt at communication after the interview was met with silence.

Thanks.

Absolutely ask, what's the harm right. Its also a key indicator of how you did. If they come back to you, they're engaged with you as a candidate, even if they're unsure of the fit between you and the organization. If they don't come back to you, you failed at the engagement, and you can go back and really analyze while its fresh in your mind.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I

I did tell one company interviewer that showed up in jeans and a T-shirt for a company that after talking to them I wasn't interested that it felt like he wasn't representing the company in a first meeting that well, and that the whole first impression thing goes both ways.

So the interviewer came into the interview likely in what they wear around the office on a day to day basis and you weren't interested in working there because... they didn't dress up for you?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So the interviewer came into the interview likely in what they wear around the office on a day to day basis and you weren't interested in working there because... they didn't dress up for you?

He was dressed below the others.


Call me old fashioned, but he's representing the company and trying to sell the role to the candidate as well.


Wearing jeans and T-Shirts for internal work is one thing, to me wearing jeans and T-shirts when dealing externally or representing an organization is another thing.


There were more things then his dress that turned me off.

[Bleeding Red]

Thanks!

I'm an Event Planner.

Knowing that I would be out there face-to-face with VIPs, attendees, and sponsors, I do try to present as personable and outgoing. I think my sales job is missing the close.

I try to avoid the standard interviewee questions about office culture. I ask about their events - what do you want from your next event? How many do you hold? Does everyone in the office help out at the event (team atmosphere)? Have your events grown in attendance? What's the worst thing that happened at your last event? Are you open to new ideas?

I don't research a company down to the last detail. I mostly study their website - history, members/clients, product/service, and, of course, events. I like to be able to mention their events by name in the interview (you had Harper speak at last year's gala; You held your last conference at the BMO center).

I avoid the "what do you like about working here" question till the second interview (have yet to ask it in a few years). My last 2 interviews were with a consultant (no insight there) and the company CEO (I am sure he loves it).

I never thought about asking them if they think I might be a good fit at the end of the interview.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Thanks!

I'm an Event Planner.

Knowing that I would be out there face-to-face with VIPs, attendees, and sponsors, I do try to present as personable and outgoing. I think my sales job is missing the close.

I try to avoid the standard interviewee questions about office culture. I ask about their events - what do you want from your next event? How many do you hold? Does everyone in the office help out at the event (team atmosphere)? Have your events grown in attendance? What's the worst thing that happened at your last event? Are you open to new ideas?

I don't research a company down to the last detail. I mostly study their website - history, members/clients, product/service, and, of course, events. I like to be able to mention their events by name in the interview (you had Harper speak at last year's gala; You held your last conference at the BMO center).

I avoid the "what do you like about working here" question till the second interview (have yet to ask it in a few years). My last 2 interviews were with a consultant (no insight there) and the company CEO (I am sure he loves it).

I never thought about asking them if they think I might be a good fit at the end of the interview.

I usually did huge reviews of the company before the first interviews, Website, linkedin, Glassdoor and other review sites. That way I don't get blind sided by anything.


I would always ask that what do you like question in the first interview because it gives them a chance to sell you, warm up to you, and have a actually conversation. You can learn a lot if the answer feels like he's trying to sell the company to you.


Usually second interviews for me were more about both sides drilling into specifics because both sides are somewhat sold on each other.


Don't feel afraid to trial close interviews.


What's the onboading process look like
Is this a new position, or a replacement position


etc.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

That's what I figure too. I try to look professional and clean cut, otherwise it shouldn't matter if I wear a jacket or not, right.

I'm a Certified Meeting Planner (CMP) - conferences, trade shows, conventions, seminars, golf tournaments, etc.


My wife thinks part of the issue is "middle aged guy" syndrome.

Having hired people quite a bit over the years the fact that you are wearing a tie when interviewing even if our office isn't as dressed up will have absolutely no bearing against you. In fact to me it shows you take the interview seriously and are putting your best foot forward.

Not knowing the specifics I think it is probably coming down to how you answer your questions. Do you come off as aloof, desperate, over confident. Those are the type of things an interviewer is going to pick up on rather than if you have a tie on or not.

[SportsJunky]

I haven't had a ton of interviews but one thing I always have done at some point is told the interviewer that I am "a great fit" for this position/company. Not in an obnoxious way just in a very matter of fact manner. Sort of like a "well, of course you called me in for an interview, I can't imagine a better fit now that I've researched the company/position a little more". It gives you a chance to talk a little about the company that hopefully you've researched and now has the interviewer, however briefly, picturing you amongst the ranks. There is an acronym that I use for these situations - FIFO - fit in or #### off. I use it often when it comes to personnel. It is counter intuitive to the idea that you should "stand out" as a candidate. Of course you want to stand out but, in my experience, they want someone that can handle the job, blend in with the culture and not make waves. Be that guy/gal in the interview.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by rotten42

Not knowing the specifics I think it is probably coming down to how you answer your questions. Do you come off as aloof, desperate, over confident. Those are the type of things an interviewer is going to pick up on rather than if you have a tie on or not.

See, that I do not know.

I have had 4-5 practice interviews with career coaches, HR people, and employment professionals. The feedback I get is "be sure to look your interviewer in the eye", watch your body language/don't cross your arms, answer the question directly and include 1 success anecdote, smile.

No one has said "you seem needy", "show that you care more", or "don't exude that you think you know best".

I like to think that I am not just dealing with a bunch of "yes" people, but the more I think it is me, the less honest answers I seem to be getting.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Sounds like you are doing everything that you can. I am in a similar position (different industry) and I know your frustration. Qualifications seem right and not even a first call sometimes. As a middle aged guy, it is a real issue of being perceived as overqualified or perhaps unreasonable in salary expectations (from their perspective). I think all one can do is keep your head up and plug away.
Given the economic climate, I have had to adjust expectations somewhat. Looking at more temporary positions/consultant work, rather than full time employment, as I think that will lead to more opportunities in the short run. Hang in there!

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

See, that I do not know.

I have had 4-5 practice interviews with career coaches, HR people, and employment professionals. The feedback I get is "be sure to look your interviewer in the eye", watch your body language/don't cross your arms, answer the question directly and include 1 success anecdote, smile.

No one has said "you seem needy", "show that you care more", or "don't exude that you think you know best".

I like to think that I am not just dealing with a bunch of "yes" people, but the more I think it is me, the less honest answers I seem to be getting.

I don't know if you do this already, but for many modern interviews you really have to treat the interview more like a date. You have to woo the company to give you a chance rather than treat you like one of the others who have walked into that room. Like a date, it's a mutual engagement to better understand each other to see if you both would like to spend more time together as opposed to the classic one sided presentation style interview. As such, lots of the body language, looking people in the eye etc. is important.

When I interview others, I often remind the interviewee to relax and just allow for conversation. As an interviewer, if I'm literally just interviewing the entire time, it's boring, it sucks. One way to think of it is if it sucks spending that hour or whatever it is in that room together, imagine spending days, months, years together.

Also, don't forget the "secret interviewer". Many forget receptionists hold a hell of a lot of clout and if you can leave a lasting impression without getting in the way of them doing their job, it could be a difference maker.

Good luck.

[snootchiebootchies]

I recently hired someone to join my team. I received about 120 applications to the job posting. One of the applicants e-mailed me and reminded me I had interviewed him before, about 5 years ago, and asked if I would be involved in the interview process this time around. He went on to describe to me what's happened to him since our interview, the positions he held and the type of experiences he gained from them that he thinks may be helpful to my team. Anyway, we ended up hiring him this time around. I don't think his e-mail to me clinched it but it certainly made me look at his resume more closely.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Thanks!

I'm an Event Planner.

I know little about your industry or the types of companies that would hire someone in your position. However, it would seem to me that this isn't your run of the mill sales or customer service position. What are the skills that make someone (you) a good or great event planner? Detailed organization skills? Operations management? A flair for the dramatic? Creativity? If you can show off those skills during the interview, I think that holds more water than saying "yes, I'm organized and have creative skills". Do you have a polished portfolio of past events you've done that you can bring with you to the interview? Or a particular experience that you can draw from during the interview process?

Thinking outside the box, is there something you can do in advance to show initiative? i.e. look at an annual event they've done previously and show/explain what you like about it and what you'd do to make it better?

Just some random thoughts... good luck!

Edit: one other thought — I’m guessing given the current economy there might be a shift to “doing more with less”. That might be something worth emphasizing if you think it fits with the organization you’re applying for...

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I know little about your industry or the types of companies that would hire someone in your position. However, it would seem to me that this isn't your run of the mill sales or customer service position. What are the skills that make someone (you) a good or great event planner? Detailed organization skills? Operations management? A flair for the dramatic? Creativity? If you can show off those skills during the interview, I think that holds more water than saying "yes, I'm organized and have creative skills". Do you have a polished portfolio of past events you've done that you can bring with you to the interview? Or a particular experience that you can draw from during the interview process?

Thinking outside the box, is there something you can do in advance to show initiative? i.e. look at an annual event they've done previously and show/explain what you like about it and what you'd do to make it better?

Just some random thoughts... good luck!

Edit: one other thought — I’m guessing given the current economy there might be a shift to “doing more with less”. That might be something worth emphasizing if you think it fits with the organization you’re applying for...

My focus is corporate educational events, not so much galas and launches (where creativity really comes into play). I try to highlight my successes in both in generating revenue, finding efficiencies, and relationships I have with suppliers. I do have a portfolio of events I have produced and leave each interviewer with a "matrix" of my events - # of attendees, budget, revenue, duration, etc.



I do have some creative stories -arranging for a surprise guest speaker to lead 200 attendees in the hokey pokey stretch (after lunch fun!) along with some innovative was to create themes.



I try no to critique and organization's events in the interview. I am afraid of coming off as "I know better than you" and would prefer to be a bit more of a team player who is no there to reinvent the wheel and overhaul everything that has come before. If they have used a speaker or venue for their event that I know, I will mention it to show that I have checked them out. But, you are right, I have never really asked in depth questions about the interviewer's events. Captain Crunch also pointed that out. I am adding that type of question my list now.


Thanks for posting, I appreciate the insights!

[Ped]

Interesting if too short article about how the skills gap is a myth:


https://www.vox.com/2019/1/7/1816695...shoag-ballance