"Take that Calgary Puck!" — SN960 and Calgary sports media discussion

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Frankly in this latest go round I think people who say they like Wills or Pnder are largely doing so based on whether they like Rittich or hate Smith, etc.

I like Pinder because I think he's good at his job. I'm mixed on Wills because while I think he's a pretty good play caller his Flames analysis is so sweetly flavored it's giving me diabetes.

I want both goaltenders to excel.

[Strange Brew]

No way Dube gets you a first rounder IMO.

Kylington - IDK. He, Andersson and Valimaki are all starting to look very good. Throw in Fox and looks like the Flames scouts found 4 first round level talents on the back end. That is something else.

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Holy hell do I find Pinder’s arguing style to be maddening. Find myself shutting off the Fan because I can’t stand Pinder at all. Not sure why so many of you seem to like him. I find him arrogant and condescending and he’s constantly interrupting people. He makes blanket statements I disagree with as if they are fact.

Today he was saying he’d rather give up Dube, Kylington and a 3rd than give up just a 1st rounder. I’m like WTF? Then he says nobody would give you a 1st for Dube or Kylington. I’m not convinced that’s true.

Fan960 is in some dark, dark days. I used to listen a lot and now I find it intolerable. I miss Robb Kerr. Now none of the hosts have anything interesting to say, the only ppl worth listening to are the guests.

10 years ago people would not be okay with Pinders attitude, but now it’s kinda of common to argue everything and anything. Just look on social media.


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[Shazam]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Marty St. Louis. Paul Gaustad. Dustin Penner.

I thought you'd only be to list more established players when they were traded.

I don't think players that have not even a seasons' worth of games get traded for picks above their draft round.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No way Dube gets you a first rounder IMO.

Kylington - IDK. He, Andersson and Valimaki are all starting to look very good. Throw in Fox and looks like the Flames scouts found 4 first round level talents on the back end. That is something else.

Both would easily get a late first round pick in return but the Flames would never make that trade.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I thought you'd only be to list more established players when they were traded.

I don't think players that have not even a seasons' worth of games get traded for picks above their draft round.

That's not what you asked.

That said, if a player, even a second year guy, has established himself as a guy you would have taken with a first round pick, I don't see the impediment. Plus Kylington was ranked as a first rounder for a long time. He is playing regular NHL minutes. That's first rounder territory.

Dube is more debatable but he made an NHL team out of camp, unlike a lot of first rounders.

Really, the reason it doesn't happen more is that teams are happy with the late round guys that they could trade for a first if they wanted. Good players are worth more than the magic beans. A season in would you have traded a first rounder for Gaudreau? I would have.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's not what you asked.

That said, if a player, even a second year guy, has established himself as a guy you would have taken with a first round pick, I don't see the impediment. Plus Kylington was ranked as a first rounder for a long time. He is playing regular NHL minutes. That's first rounder territory.

Dube is more debatable but he made an NHL team out of camp, unlike a lot of first rounders.

Really, the reason it doesn't happen more is that teams are happy with the late round guys that they could trade for a first if they wanted. Good players are worth more than the magic beans. A season in would you have traded a first rounder for Gaudreau? I would have.

Dube made the team in his second season, then was sent down. As you say it’s debatable but if for some reason he no longer wanted to play in the Flames organization, we’d have a hard time getting a first rounder for him IMO. S en would be somewhat comparable, with a much higher draft pedigree but two years more of pro experience to evaluate.

Fox is an example of a guy whose value increased. I believe his value in the Carolina trade was that of a first or at worst second round pick.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Dube made the team in his second season, then was sent down. As you say it’s debatable but if for some reason he no longer wanted to play in the Flames organization, we’d have a hard time getting a first rounder for him IMO. S en would be somewhat comparable, with a much higher draft pedigree but two years more of pro experience to evaluate.

Fox is an example of a guy whose value increased. I believe his value in the Carolina trade was that of a first or at worst second round pick.

Why is your scenario that Dube doesn't want to play for the Flames? In mine it's that another team wants him that badly. But I'd be hard pressed to trade him for a first, knowing his floor, and thinking about his ceiling.

And this is Dube's first pro season, is what I meant. Sent down last year as a junior is not what I was talking about.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Why is your scenario that Dube doesn't want to play for the Flames? In mine it's that another team wants him that badly. But I'd be hard pressed to trade him for a first, knowing his floor, and thinking about his ceiling.

And this is Dube's first pro season, is what I meant. Sent down last year as a junior is not what I was talking about.

That’s the only scenario where Dube gets traded for a pick IMO. But I suppose if some team really wanted him badly they’d be prepared to overpay like in the Lazar trade. It’s all theoretical as he’s not getting g traded for a single pick. Only as part of a package presumably. I don’t believe he carries the value of an A+ prospect that some teams might have (or say a Valimaki).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That’s the only scenario where Dube gets traded for a pick IMO. But I suppose if some team really wanted him badly they’d be prepared to overpay like in the Lazar trade. It’s all theoretical as he’s not getting g traded for a single pick. Only as part of a package presumably. I don’t believe he carries the value of an A+ prospect that some teams might have (or say a Valimaki).

Wh I'm saying is that plenty of teams would trade a first for a guy who already plays as we'll a stick your average late first rounder. And that Calgary wouldn't do that trade for the same reason.

[Mr.Coffee]

I agree with where most posters are at on this and think generally people have it right.

Wills is a cheerleader, Pinder is an analyst. But, one guy has to travel and hang around the team 24/7 and the other guy doesn’t. Naturally, you’re going to get a little biased, but this is where men separate from the boys when you compare a legend like Maher to a guy trying to find himself in Wills.

Wills is over the top with the kindness he shows the team, but he almost kind of goes out of his way to do it. Maher used to be rose coloured glasses / kind to the team in his commentary as well but he did it in a much more subtle way. Maybe that’s me not remembering correctly or waxing poetic in nostalgia, but he never seemed to defend the indefensible like Wills does here and which is clearly in violation of reality.

I can 100% see why people would view Pinder as condescending but here’s the thing the boys on the Fan can’t forget (and I mean all of them, the morning show or afternoon or evening shows). You’re in the entertainment business. If your opinion never changes and is always 110% positive even when it shouldn’t be, it’s boring as hell to listen to. Pinder is popular because he goes against the grain and tries to call it how he sees it.

Who are the most interesting people to listen to on that station? Pinder, Warrener, sometimes Boomer, Burke. Because they try to have honest opinions about things and aren’t afraid to have them. Every single other person including Kerr, was always over the top positive. It’s boring. And frankly, given the track record of this franchise, really being super positive hasn’t been warranted or earned outside of this year and maybe 1 or 2 others. I’d rather listen to people call it how they see it then listen to somebody who I already know what they’re going to say in Loubo (wonderful person, amazing player) or Wills (nothing bad).

It’s kind of like some posters on this website. You always know what they’re going to say. I have positive things to say but everybody always says them already. So I’ll bring up negative things to try and counter the circle jerk and bring about a sense of reality, like absurd lopsided trade proposals a monkey would never do, and then I get labeled as constantly negative when I don’t really think I am (this team is amazing this year and I don’t really have any complaints to be honest).

[GioforPM]

On Maher, he actually rarely ventured into analysis. His "insider " schtick was more on personalities and repeating what players and coaches said to him (which were all normal cliches).

[dustygoon]

When it comes to local broadcasts, i like guys with integrity but i understand who pays their wages. There has to be some bias. In the end.....who wants to hear wet blanket Drew Remenda? We had him down here, and he was so negative and irritating.

Maher nailed that balance. He was honest but in the flames corner.

Wills has it. I like him. A little more bias, but seems like a positive guy. Not sure why people hate on him.

Pinder....he said he is there to make entertaining radio. He's happy to be the dissenter. It's fine as long as there is a strong personality across from him. They don't have that.

[curves2000]

I don't really chime in too much on local personalities or really hammer them online, they sometimes have a difficult, public job to do and nobody is every happy. These guys don't make earth-shattering salaries either so I understand the need for them to feed their families etc.

I think for a lot of posters they get irritated when some of these media personalities take the extreme measures or positions that sway to far away from the norm. In some cases it tilts the conversation where the viewers or listeners' hockey knowledge is getting challenged and that's where we get the serious disagreements. I recall a few instances from last year

1) Gully's coaching, adjustment, usage and in-game management was being questioned by so many fan's at the games and online/ on the call in show's etc. Some of the media personalities were fully defending certain decisions, playing up the cliches of "Flames are dominating this and that stat, they gotta continue to play their game, they will be fine long term" It got to the point with Gully where you couldn't defend him any longer in so many categories and than all of a sudden a switch happened. Media were openly questioning the most obvious coaching moves and people were generally perplexed and baffled. I think management saw the same thing and decided to fire him. Fast forward to 18-19 season and all of a sudden Peter's has the boys playing a different brand of hockey and the game adjustments have been excellent.

2) Advanced Stats: This is where I think a lot of media personalities like Pinder, Steinberg end up butting heads with the Loubo's, Warrner's, Boomer's etc. Everybody takes their position trying to defend their opinion and than you get into a yelling match. The truth of the matter is that these advanced stats can help with some decisions and try and develop a better coaching and management strategy to play the game, they will not win the championship's and are not the be alln that some people spew.

3) Player & former players vs average Joe's: This is one that I always find fascinating as it has many elements to it. One really quick episode of the Morning Show last year stood out to me. The Edmonton Oiler's hired Paul Coffey to work with their D mid-season and Pinder was going on and on about hiring former players in Edmonton and how it doesn't work etc. He was questioning what value he would bring to Edmonton when nobody else from the 80's team has done anything. Warrener shot back with some serious attacks and defended the Hall of Famer and his historic career and than mentioned that he could provide a lot of insight considering the level of success he had and how he played and viewed the game. It was very very interesting to listen to as in essence, they both had their own valid points.

[Boreal]

All true.

1) Gully's coaching, adjustment, usage and in-game management
2) Advanced Stats:
3) Player & former players vs average Joe's:

My issue with Pinder is that he cherry picks analytics, without insightfully communicating the value they contextually apply to team building, player cohesion, & player teaching/improvement.

Rob Kerr is/was great at this.

Pinder often grossly oversimplifies them.

He just blurts them out with smarmy convenience to make his opinion look like a concrete undeniable fact, or he uses them invalidate other’s viewpoints.

I used to be a big fan of his work, but I’ve noticed he either cherry picks others analysis or fence sits, using other people’s opinion without formulating anything himself.

Yesterday he compared Kylington and his trade value to Kulak without ever stating his own opinion on the player & hung his “analysis” on what he heard a few scouts from other organizations think of Kylington.

It’s frustrating because if he was able to deflate his cocky “buddy bro” style, dig in on more of his hockey knowledge, and reset how he communicates analytics, he would be exponentially better as an analyst & broadcaster.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

All true.





My issue with Pinder is that he cherry picks analytics, without insightfully communicating the value they contextually apply to team building, player cohesion, & player teaching/improvement.



Rob Kerr is/was great at this.



Pinder often grossly oversimplifies them.



He just blurts them out with smarmy convenience to make his opinion look like a concrete undeniable fact, or he uses them invalidate other’s viewpoints.



I used to be a big fan of his work, but I’ve noticed he either cherry picks others analysis or fence sits, using other people’s opinion without formulating anything himself.



Yesterday he compared Kylington and his trade value to Kulak without ever stating his own opinion on the player & hung his “analysis” on what he heard a few scouts from other organizations think of Kylington.



It’s frustrating because if he was able to deflate his cocky “buddy bro” style, dig in on more of his hockey knowledge, and reset how he communicates analytics, he would be exponentially better as an analyst & broadcaster.

You get paid by Kelly Kirch for your insight right? This is some next next level analysis that you’ve been offering here. It’s impressively in-depth, but at the same time, you’re a radio personality’s nightmare.


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[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

You get paid by Kelly Kirch for your insight right? This is some next next level analysis that you’ve been offering here. It’s impressively in-depth, but at the same time, you’re a radio personality’s nightmare.


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I had no idea Kelly purchased a media outlet, Ryan (or one of his bro surrogates) so no he doesn’t pay me.

[Erick Estrada]

I hope you people that don't like Rome are happy and you better tune into this new show because that's what you wanted. Nothing against the guys that have been saddled in a no-win station but this is awful radio. We are in the beginning of NFL free agency which is by far the biggest North American sports news right now and they are discussing Blue Jays spring training. Just awful Kelly as you are pushing one of your longest time listeners all the way back to the Team to turn the dial for the first time ever.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I hope you people that don't like Rome are happy. Nothing against the guys that have been saddled in a no-win station but this is awful radio. We are in the beginning of NFL free agency which is by far the biggest North American sports news right now and they are discussing Blue Jays spring training. Just awful Kelly.

Very happy that Rome is gone. I get all my NFL free agency info from twitter, and believe it or not twitter is more mature than Rome’s body type shaming Jr high school mentality repetitive schtick .
But that’s just my opinion man

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I hope you people that don't like Rome are happy and you better tune into this new show because that's what you wanted. Nothing against the guys that have been saddled in a no-win station but this is awful radio. We are in the beginning of NFL free agency which is by far the biggest North American sports news right now and they are discussing Blue Jays spring training. Just awful Kelly as you are pushing one of your longest time listeners all the way back to the Team to turn the dial for the first time ever.

As a Raiders fan I was sad to not hear Rome’s take on the AB trade over the weekend especially after ripping him for torching his trade value in the weeks leading up to the deal.

Baseball is the most boring and pointless game out there (162 games a season really?). To have the FAN ditch Rome to talk about Blue Jays spring training is terrible.

I am hopeful if the Flames go on a long playoff run having all Flames all day works for me