Oliver Stones Untold History of the United States

[Brannigans Law]

http://www.sho.com/sho/oliver-stones...ed-states/home

On episode 3 so far. Pretty interesting and I highly recommend.

[Magnum PEI]

Is this like People's History? Might have to check it out.
Though I think most people realize the Western democracies have never been the benevolent governments they would have their citizens believe. Canada included.

[Brannigans Law]

Really great so far. I stayed up watching it last night and since Friday or whenever I've got to episode 6 or 5. It's really good, but it definitely isn't very flattering about Americas foreign policy. Some notable things for me:

1. Truman is not portrayed very nicely. He's basically blamed for the cold war, renegging on deals with the USSR, and creating the climate of fear and distrust
2. Same with Churchill. He fanned the flames of the cold war in a lot of ways. This isn't really Oliver Stones assertion through 1st hand accounts either, Churchill publically did a lot of talk about the evil of the USSR
3. Krushchev is praised in a lot of ways for helping to de-escalate tensions and combat hard liners
4. The USA's history of regime change and installing brutal dictators who are capitlist friendly is astonishing, and I thought I knew a lot about that already
5. makes a very solid argument that the bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were more about establishing US as a nuclear monopoly and flexing it's muscle to USSR than ending the war (something that the Russians should be credited for)

[Mike F]

Is this the same one that came out a year or two ago, or a new series?

[Daradon]

I saw him speaking on Real Time with Bill Maher about this show. Pretty interesting stuff. Would like to give it a view.

I understand it's a Showtime show, but does it run on HBO? Those networks are connected in some way aren't they?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Is this the same one that came out a year or two ago, or a new series?

Same one as a year ago.

[Magnum PEI]

Watched the first three. The first one kind of sucks, but the second one gets interesting 20 minutes in.
A few issues I have:
-It should really start at the Revolution.
-Pretty sure Henry Wallace wouldve dropped the bombs too.
-Listed off the huge amount of material and money America gave to Russia then tried to convince us that Russia won the war. They wouldve been screwed without America and Britain.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

Watched the first three. The first one kind of sucks, but the second one gets interesting 20 minutes in.
A few issues I have:
-It should really start at the Revolution.
-Pretty sure Henry Wallace wouldve dropped the bombs too.
-Listed off the huge amount of material and money America gave to Russia then tried to convince us that Russia won the war. They wouldve been screwed without America and Britain.

Russia paid the heaviest cost, regardless of money and materials.

30-40 million people is a terrible toll and shouldn't be confused in any way with simple monetary bribes.

Pretty sure Wallace would not have dropped the bombs, but the more interesting part of the Wallace story is how a guy like him would've been weeded out by the process before he'd have an opportunity to be in control of that type of situation. Sets the stage for later blights on American politics like the loss of George McGovern to Nixon.

If you start at the Revolution, you have to start before the revolution, I.E. Why was there a revolution?

[Magnum PEI]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Russia paid the heaviest cost, regardless of money and materials.

Obviously. I just thought it as funny that they would list all the materiel sent to Russia then spend the rest of the documentary downplaying the American contribution.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

30-40 million people is a terrible toll and shouldn't be confused in any way with simple monetary bribes.

I believe the figures they listed were 20-30 million.
Body count doesn't equal war effort. The Eastern Front was barbaric compared to the Western Front.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Pretty sure Wallace would not have dropped the bombs, but the more interesting part of the Wallace story is how a guy like him would've been weeded out by the process before he'd have an opportunity to be in control of that type of situation. Sets the stage for later blights on American politics like the loss of George McGovern to Nixon.

That was when it started to get interesting. It's been pretty good since then.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If you start at the Revolution, you have to start before the revolution, I.E. Why was there a revolution?

Sure, just saying there's lots of 'untold' history before WW2.

[nik-]

Stalin also could have just taken most of Germany himself and then not let the Allies in.