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Old 05-19-2020, 05:20 PM   #5481
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Originally Posted by Bill Bumface View Post
If the USA was looking to get a pipe through Canada to supply oil to a Canadian refinery, would you be for it or against it?

I'd be against it. I'd rather Canadian industry fill our refineries. I assume the US desire for Keystone must be to secure heavy oil and it's a Canada vs. Venezuela question, because otherwise I have no idea why anyone there would support it.
What is the difference if they built a pipeline or shipped it via rail or tanker to Quebec and Ontario? I agree that I want Canadian crude in Canadian refineries but that is a pipe dream. It will never happen. This current government will never allow it and I don't see how the Conservatives can ever win another election.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:29 PM   #5482
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Obama was welcomed to a speaking engagement in Calgary like a hero.

The tower should have refused his plane clearance to land.
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:19 PM   #5483
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This will bring an interesting dynamic of those cheering for trump for the pipeline and those against trump.
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:27 PM   #5484
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That's totally fair, like I said I'm pretty oil and gas focused so I don't know how new tariffs have effected say, the aluminum or steel or auto industry. Maybe they've been devastated, but right now it doesn't seem to the same degree that O&G was devastated by Obama's decision to kill keystone. What's his legacy to Canadians? Besides being friends with Trudeau and everyone liking him because he's likable and fitting in more with the beige nice-guy Canadian persona than Trump. That's all well and good but it's superficial crap, when it comes to actual boosts to our bottom line Trump helped us more by trying to undo a disastrous decision that has made our province, and by extension all of us, poorer for no reason.

Warren Kinsella on twitter is an interesting follow because he's a Liberal who now lives in Toronto but was originally from Alberta, is a fan of Obama and now Biden, and hates both Trump and Trudeau. Big mixed bag. He had recently become a big booster of Alberta getting export capacity because he recognizes how painfully unfair the current situation is so I was interested in how he would reconcile that with being a huge Biden supporter with yesterday's news. His stance seems to be something like "Yeah this isn't great but surely you don't think this means we should support Trump..." Well to me it does, as a Canadian citizen Biden just articulated a policy that would tear a hole in Canada US trade, weaken North American energy security, enhance market share for Venezuela and Iran, and remove billions of dollars from future GDP that we will need to pay off this COVID debt. How's Biden going to make up for that? That's what every Canadian should be asking, I would bet he doesn't have a good answer. The benefits of having someone you like, even if he's a nicer guy or whatever, is not worth the real tangible cost to our economy. I get that people hate trump and if you were an American citizen there'd be reasons to vote for Biden that would improve your life but strictly as a Canadian right now I see a ton of down side and no upside offer in return. Biden would immediately kick all of us in the nuts and we'd thank him and ask for another just like we did with Obama it's bizarre.
I hear you. It is tough and it would still be tough with Keystone in place. Btw, why wasn't xl built during Trump administration? Is he BSing us?

Anyways not the point I'm trying to make. My point is that I would not trade off human rights, democracy, world order, rise of racism and general disregard for human good and total neglect of human decency for a pipeline. ###### Trump and his gang of criminals. More to life than a pipeline.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:17 PM   #5485
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I hear you. It is tough and it would still be tough with Keystone in place. Btw, why wasn't xl built during Trump administration? Is he BSing us?

Anyways not the point I'm trying to make. My point is that I would not trade off human rights, democracy, world order, rise of racism and general disregard for human good and total neglect of human decency for a pipeline. ###### Trump and his gang of criminals. More to life than a pipeline.
No Trump legitimately wants this finished. It stalled out because in 2018 an Obama appointed judge in Montana ruled against the Presidential permit being valid for some reason. This is the same judge that ruled against the pipeline again last month.

Obviously this election is out of our hands, the main hope is that if Biden is elected we can pressure him as a country to let this slide. I feel that the majority of reasonable Canadians that recognize economic and strategic realities can agree that this project needs to go ahead without having to agree on a preferable candidate to win the US election. So far everyone is saying the right things, which is a good start. I'm no fan of Trudeau but I'm at least objective enough to give him credit when he and his government do the right thing, and both his and Freeland's statements this morning were great and what we need. So props to them. I do think that if the rubber meets the road on this issue we'll need more forceful and vocal support from the Feds, possibly on the level of a tit for tat response threat to convince a Biden administration to back down. Certainly a much more vigorous response than the Liberals gave in 2015. Something like barring American lake shipping through the Welland Canal, that's the equivalent level of ####ery that Biden would be putting us through by retroactively blocking a pipeline that will be 1/3 finished by November. So we'll see if they come through then, hopefully they do.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:28 PM   #5486
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Nm - misread post.
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:52 PM   #5487
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AER suspends environmental monitoring

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ovid-1.5578994

"Companies no longer have to monitor fumes released by burning or conduct programs to detect and repair leaks of methane, a potent greenhouse gas"

That concerns me somewhat. Isn't flaring more or less the worst thing you can do when drilling?

I'm not a fan of methane (neither is my wife, but that's a different story).
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:11 PM   #5488
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That concerns me somewhat. Isn't flaring more or less the worst thing you can do when drilling?
Venting is worse. It's better to convert the methane to C02, which is ~97% less potent of a greenhouse gas.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:46 PM   #5489
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So you are saying I should attempt to ignite ALL my farts? I'll let my wife know it's for the environment.
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Old 05-21-2020, 04:00 PM   #5490
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AER suspends environmental monitoring

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ovid-1.5578994

"Companies no longer have to monitor fumes released by burning or conduct programs to detect and repair leaks of methane, a potent greenhouse gas"

That concerns me somewhat. Isn't flaring more or less the worst thing you can do when drilling?

I'm not a fan of methane (neither is my wife, but that's a different story).
There is very little flaring or venting happening when drilling. Unless you are drilling underbalanced or maybe circulating out a kick or something. And the amount of drilling going on even at the busiest of times in years past is minuscule in the overall scheme of things, maybe a few hundred rigs at any given time. There's more vehicles on the road in Strathmore on any given day than there are rigs drilling in Alberta.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:07 PM   #5491
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Using Covid for an excuse is BS, most of that monitoring is no problem to do while following Covid safety protocols. They should at least be honest and say it's because of money issues. Good for oil company spending, not so good for the service providers doing this work.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:18 PM   #5492
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Its in the flowback after the well is completed when flaring often occurs... or used to. Used to flow the entire well to flare for a few days.
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Old 06-04-2020, 07:17 AM   #5493
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Since we don't have a Quebec oil discussion thread...I thought this was interesting, and would be a great way to reduce Canada's emissions. Pipelines are a big source of fugitive emissions, too. But hey, it's Quebec, so this is dreaming:

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Another key environmental benefit that would come from Quebec using local natural gas is that it would have a much lower carbon footprint than the gas that is currently transported all the way from western Canada or the United States.
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“Quebec consumes large quantities of natural gas – 216 billion cubic feet (BCF) (6.12 billion m3) in 2019. Considerable energy is expended in transporting gas from producing areas in western Canada and the U.S. to Quebec.

CO2 emissions associated with transportation energy depend on many variables and assumptions. Choosing reasonable assumptions, we calculate that producing Quebec’s gas supply in the province instead of importing it from western Canada or the United States could save up to almost 170,000 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions per year, which is comparable to removing about 35,000 cars from the road each year.”
https://www.secondstreet.org/2020/06...n-opportunity/

Last edited by Fuzz; 06-04-2020 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:58 AM   #5494
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Since we don't have a Quebec oil discussion thread...I thought this was interesting, and would be a great way to reduce Canada's emissions. Pipelines are a big source of fugitive emissions, too. But hey, it's Quebec, so this is dreaming:


https://www.secondstreet.org/2020/06...n-opportunity/



how do you figure this?
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Old 06-04-2020, 10:26 AM   #5495
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how do you figure this?
Aren't they? I thought I had heard lots about that, but am no expert. This report has comments like this:
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Emissions in the US include a much largercontribution from gastransmission and distribution than Canada and are therefore more spread out across the country(Sheng et al. 2017). The US has more extensive inter-and intra-state transmission pipelines withatotal length of nearly 500,000 km (EIA 2007a,b)–five times that of Canada (NRCan 2014). Longer transmission pipelines require more compressor stations. There are more than 1,200 compressor stations in the US (EIA, 2007a, b), compared to about 200 in Canada(ArcGIS online 2015). The US also uses more natural gas and has much larger distribution systems –about2 million km (the American Gas Foundation, 2012) compared to Canada's 450,000 km (Natural Resources Canada, 2014). Furthermore, the US distribution systems have more,high-emitting cast iron and bare steel pipes (9% of the totaldistribution system) than Canada (0.2%) (the American Gas Foundation 2012).
(p4)


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Most of the compressors driving the gas through pipelines are fueled by natural gas.Compressors emit CO2and methane emissions during fuel combustion and are also a source of fugitive and vented methane emissions through leaks in compressor seals, valves, and connections,and through venting that occurs during operations and maintenance. Thus, compressor stations are the primary source of vented methane emissions in natural gas transmission.
(p19)
https://ceri.ca/assets/files/CERI%20...ary%202019.pdf



So with the long distance of transmission from the states, I'd assume using local gas woudl reduce emissions. But again, no expert on this.
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:34 PM   #5496
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
Since we don't have a Quebec oil discussion thread...I thought this was interesting, and would be a great way to reduce Canada's emissions. Pipelines are a big source of fugitive emissions, too. But hey, it's Quebec, so this is dreaming:


https://www.secondstreet.org/2020/06...n-opportunity/
Quebec stupidity is a net negative to Alberta in this dysfunctional marriage of a country but in this case they're actually doing us a favor. North America is so clogged with natural gas as it is that it's a big help to existing gas producers that some jurisdictions like Quebec, New Brunswick, and to a lesser extent New York, are willfully ignoring their subsurface potential. But you're right, this would be a smart move for them to do, economically and environmentally. Quebec doesn't have a strong suit in either of those areas though unfortunately.
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:57 PM   #5497
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Also in other news Enbridge Line 3 expansion through Minnesota to Superior Wisconsin was delayed AGAIN yesterday when the Minnesota Pollution agency or something delayed a hearing that was supposed to be held August 14 to November 14, thus missing the bulk of 2020 construction season to 2021. If ever there was proof that this is an ideological struggle for these obstructers and has eff all to do with the environment they're successfully blocking the replacement of a 60+ year old pipeline with a new much safer pipeline. Same with the moron AG and Governor of Michigan who are trying to tear up an agreement Enbridge reached with the previous administration to tunnel under the strait linking lakes Michigan and Huron to replace another 60 year old pipe on the lakebed. Credit to whoever still has hair working in Enbridge's legal department, I would have torn that #### out years ago with all the ####ery they have to put up with. Line 3 was supposed to be done at the end of 2019 and now it might not even get finished in 2021. So ridiculous haha, at some point this just goes beyond infuriating to be macabrely funny.
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:29 AM   #5498
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Also in other news Enbridge Line 3 expansion through Minnesota to Superior Wisconsin was delayed AGAIN yesterday when the Minnesota Pollution agency or something delayed a hearing that was supposed to be held August 14 to November 14, thus missing the bulk of 2020 construction season to 2021. If ever there was proof that this is an ideological struggle for these obstructers and has eff all to do with the environment they're successfully blocking the replacement of a 60+ year old pipeline with a new much safer pipeline. Same with the moron AG and Governor of Michigan who are trying to tear up an agreement Enbridge reached with the previous administration to tunnel under the strait linking lakes Michigan and Huron to replace another 60 year old pipe on the lakebed. Credit to whoever still has hair working in Enbridge's legal department, I would have torn that #### out years ago with all the ####ery they have to put up with. Line 3 was supposed to be done at the end of 2019 and now it might not even get finished in 2021. So ridiculous haha, at some point this just goes beyond infuriating to be macabrely funny.
I am going to give credit where it is due. The money behind the green movement is both well coordinated and very strategically smart.

They have decades of investment where they have put politicians and judges that favor policy that makes their inferior technology the only choice, artificially killing off the competition. Politicians help shape the education system to have environmentally heavy messaging in classrooms. Politicians outright show hostility to oil and gas while ignoring their economic benefit. Judges appointed in a system that facilitates appointment of like minded judges appointed by said politicians ensures court cases drag on forever.

Finally they have run a manipulative education campaign through movies, documentaries, and social media to ensure the public sees this as a war of good and evil.

It's brilliant....at making a small group of rich people ensure they are at the front of making more money with inferior technology that is the only technology available to use.

We are going to wake up in several decades poorer, worse off, and with no noticeable difference in climate. Realizing we were all swindled by the same rich people who swindled all of us before.

It is staggeringly brilliant to watch the puppets dance to be honest.
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:41 PM   #5499
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1277800607395516418


That line fills a lot of Ontario's Energy requirements. If only there was some kind of invention, a conveyance that could move that Oil and Gas from Alberta out East and make Canada more energy independent. I mean that would be ideal.


Oh well, I guess they can help Saudi Arabia buy more tanks APC and machine guns to, while we have oil tankers going up the St Lawrence.


Shame that.
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Old 07-02-2020, 08:11 AM   #5500
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Supreme Court will not hear First Nations' challenge against Trans Mountain pipeline
"The Supreme Court of Canada will not allow an appeal from a group of First Nations in B.C. looking to challenge the federal government's second approval of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion project. As there is no higher court in Canada, the decision Thursday brings an end to the groups' legal challenge."


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...nada-1.5634232
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