Interesting I would have thought the opposite but I have never tracked a paddle shift car so I guess I'll have to wait and see. I'm not used to taking my hands off the wheel in a corner.
So now that these dual clutch paddle shifters are making there way into more mainstream cars how are we all feeling about reliability and maintenance cost?
Reason I ask; I was offered a 2012 mitsu evo on trade the other day and I was actually a little tempted, enough to show a friend the car. Turns out we have a mutual friend whose son bought one of these, used, and the tranny went the first week he had it. A replacement was worth more than half the cars value and he eventually found one used for around $4000 and went that route. Apparently the maintenance on these things is not your average plan, fluid change is quite expensive you are supposed to service it after every track day, which makes me think if someone before you drives the snot out of it you should be on a tight schedule as well. And due to cost and difficulty there's a better chance people wont follow the schedule.
I've had my eye on R8's and Gallardo's for a while and the trans seems to be an area where there are issues (clutch for sure), so while there are some deals to be had if you know how to wrench there's also going to be a lot of cheaper cars that may look great but are only worth what can be salvaged as these things become more popular.
Or they become reliable and a non issue. haha who knows for sure.
I'll take that Lotus with a stick though, very good looking car.
The paddle transmission on Gallardos (E-Gear) and the earlier R8s (R-Tronic) was a single-clutch. They (particularly the Gallardo) get a bad rap for clunky shifting, but IMO that's over blown and at this point something that's more likely to be echoed online by people that have never had any (/significant) seat time. Both transmissions are perfectly fine and suit the personality of the car. I wouldn't hesitate to get one, pending normal DD and a thorough inspection before purchase.
As a single clutch, it works essentially like a normal manual, with a computer actuated clutch engaging between gear changes. As such, it will wear like a normal manual transmission, but usually no worse than a properly driven manual car, without the risk of normal clutch slippage by sloppy driving.
The DCTs have - you guessed it - two clutches; one to disengage the current gear, and one to engage the next gear. As such, there's very little stress through the changes and very little resultant wear on the clutch itself. As far as I know, clutch replacements due to wear and tear are exceptionally rare.
I know nothing about Evos, but my guess would be that car with the grenaded transmission was due to someone playing too much Fast & Furious with it...
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It doesn't matter where the paddles are mounted, because after a week of driving with them you realize the computer does a better job than you, and it's not actually fun like a manual anyway so you just sort of feel silly using them.
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Interesting I would have thought the opposite but I have never tracked a paddle shift car so I guess I'll have to wait and see. I'm not used to taking my hands off the wheel in a corner.
I would agree that the paddles should be on the column and not the wheel but all of your shifting should be done prior to the turn in on the corner. Shifting in the middle of the corner only unsettles the car.
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So now that these dual clutch paddle shifters are making there way into more mainstream cars how are we all feeling about reliability and maintenance cost?
Reason I ask; I was offered a 2012 mitsu evo on trade the other day and I was actually a little tempted, enough to show a friend the car. Turns out we have a mutual friend whose son bought one of these, used, and the tranny went the first week he had it. A replacement was worth more than half the cars value and he eventually found one used for around $4000 and went that route. Apparently the maintenance on these things is not your average plan, fluid change is quite expensive you are supposed to service it after every track day, which makes me think if someone before you drives the snot out of it you should be on a tight schedule as well. And due to cost and difficulty there's a better chance people wont follow the schedule.
I've had my eye on R8's and Gallardo's for a while and the trans seems to be an area where there are issues (clutch for sure), so while there are some deals to be had if you know how to wrench there's also going to be a lot of cheaper cars that may look great but are only worth what can be salvaged as these things become more popular.
Or they become reliable and a non issue. haha who knows for sure.
I'll take that Lotus with a stick though, very good looking car.
I'm probably as good a person as anyone to answer as I owned a 2008 EVO X MR with the TC-SST, have owned VAG cars with DSG, and am now driving a BMW with ZF-8. DCT's are actually being phased out of mainstream cars as the ZF-8 has replaced DCT's in BMW and Audi's longitudinal offerings. VAG has been using them for almost two decades now and there's nothing wrong with them (I do not count Ford, Hyundai and some other manufactures have tried to build them on the cheap using dry clutches leading to poor results) outside the fact that they can be a little jerky or clunky in low gears. Despite the ZF-8 transmission closing the gap, DCT's still offer the fastest shifts particularly when it comes to downshifting which is why you will still see them used in a lot of performance exotics. The BMW DCT for example is a little more engaging when than the ZF-8 but it's not as refined as the ZF-8 upshifts just as fast and is butter smooth in comparison. When using the paddles I find that the DCT is quicker at downshifting than the ZF-8 but for the average person I would say the ZF-8 is the better transmission.
As for the EVO X DCT it's actually a pretty solid Getrag unit that was so impressive that after testing the EVO X, BMW decided to source a longitudinal version of it for the E90 M3 which was used for a few generations until the newly released G8x M3/M4. The transmissions are sealed units and Mitsubishi will not work on them and will only replace them. There are specialty shops that will work on them but I'm not sure there are any local. I imagine if your friend bought one that failed in a week that the previous owner likely had either not maintained it or knew it was on its way out.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 07-08-2021 at 06:53 AM.
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It doesn't matter where the paddles are mounted, because after a week of driving with them you realize the computer does a better job than you, and it's not actually fun like a manual anyway so you just sort of feel silly using them.
Well that just isn't true at all. It's a different type of fun, more of an "I'm the next Michael Schumacher" sort of fun.
But no, the paddles should absolutely be column-mounted and it does matter. The paddles on my E550 were wheel mounted and I couldn't stand them moving with the wheel. The Aston has column-mounted paddles and it is a far better experience for it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
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This is what I referred to as "feeling silly using them". I'm glad others have fun though.
The only reason I care about what cars others drive is that I like used cars, so all you automatic buyers are killing my selection.
There are plenty of older manual Astons if you're so inclined, and the depreciation curve on early Vantage has largely bottomed out. Or there is a dark blue DB7 Vantage Volante in Sherwood Park for sale... $42.5k for a 5.9L V12 with a 6-speed manual gearbox. Now that would make for a pretty wonderful cruiser.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
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Column mounted paddles tend to be much longer and have far more leeway for hand positioning and you know they're not moving whereas wheel mounted tend to be smaller and if your hands drift a little off the location you're missing your mark.
I liken it to a mechanical keyboard to a cellphone keyboard. There's a big difference.
There are plenty of older manual Astons if you're so inclined, and the depreciation curve on early Vantage has largely bottomed out. Or there is a dark blue DB7 Vantage Volante in Sherwood Park for sale... $42.5k for a 5.9L V12 with a 6-speed manual gearbox. Now that would make for a pretty wonderful cruiser.
If I was ever going to get a GT car, Astons have always stood out to me because of their lack of fins and vents. I wouldn't be embarrassed to get in and out of one in public as I would in a Ferrari or Lambo.
I don't care for column mounted paddles because they are too long. I actually just let the automatic do it's ting as sport and sport+ modes make it easy and I'm just one of those drivers that doesn't really care about the whole transmission involvement thing. 80% of the cars I've driven over almost 30 years have been manual and I'm kind of over them for a city commuter. It's fun and all under the right circumstances but becomes a bit of a chore in stop and go traffic.
If I was ever going to get a GT car, Astons have always stood out to me because of their lack of fins and vents. I wouldn't be embarrassed to get in and out of one in public as I would in a Ferrari or Lambo.
They also aren't completely horrible when it comes to parts and servicing since they were part of Ford for such a long time. If there's a part you need, you can usually find a Ford, Mazda, Jag, Land Rover, or Volvo part number that'll replace it identically.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
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i'm probably as good a person as anyone to answer as i owned a 2008 evo x mr with the tc-sst, have owned vag cars with dsg, and am now driving a bmw with zf-8. Dct's are actually being phased out of mainstream cars as the zf-8 has replaced dct's in bmw and audi's longitudinal offerings. Vag has been using them for almost two decades now and there's nothing wrong with them (i do not count ford, hyundai and some other manufactures have tried to build them on the cheap using dry clutches leading to poor results) outside the fact that they can be a little jerky or clunky in low gears. Despite the zf-8 transmission closing the gap, dct's still offer the fastest shifts particularly when it comes to downshifting which is why you will still see them used in a lot of performance exotics. The bmw dct for example is a little more engaging when than the zf-8 but it's not as refined as the zf-8 upshifts just as fast and is butter smooth in comparison. When using the paddles i find that the dct is quicker at downshifting than the zf-8 but for the average person i would say the zf-8 is the better transmission.
As for the evo x dct it's actually a pretty solid getrag unit that was so impressive that after testing the evo x, bmw decided to source a longitudinal version of it for the e90 m3 which was used for a few generations until the newly released g8x m3/m4. The transmissions are sealed units and mitsubishi will not work on them and will only replace them. There are specialty shops that will work on them but i'm not sure there are any local. I imagine if your friend bought one that failed in a week that the previous owner likely had either not maintained it or knew it was on its way out.
Despite your useless post and inability to use IMG tags correctly, allow me to help translate:
EVO X MR = Model of Mitsubishi
TC-SST = Twin-clutch Sportronic Shift Transmission
VAG = Volkswagen AG
DSG = Direct Shift Gearbox
BMW = Carmaker
ZF-8 = Model of 8-speed transmission manufactured by ZF Friedrichshafen AG
dry clutch = Go read
Getrag = A German transmission manufacturer
E90 M3 = Generation of BMW 3-series of which the M3 model was produced between 2007-2013
G8x M3/M4 = Generation of BMW 3/4-series introduced in 2020
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GO FLAMES GO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
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I suppose I'm so used to hanging at car forums that I just take for granted people understand a lot of the industry acronyms. I can understand why my post may be a little hard to follow for the average person.
The new Dodge EV will launch in 2024, and the Detroit-based automaker gave us a look at what the new car's front end could look like, and it looks appropriately retro.
I suppose I'm so used to hanging at car forums that I just take for granted people understand a lot of the industry acronyms. I can understand why my post may be a little hard to follow for the average person.
Despite your useless post and inability to use IMG tags correctly, allow me to help translate:
EVO X MR = Model of Mitsubishi
TC-SST = Twin-clutch Sportronic Shift Transmission
VAG = Volkswagen AG
DSG = Direct Shift Gearbox
BMW = Carmaker
ZF-8 = Model of 8-speed transmission manufactured by ZF Friedrichshafen AG
dry clutch = Go read
Getrag = A German transmission manufacturer
E90 M3 = Generation of BMW 3-series of which the M3 model was produced between 2007-2013
G8x M3/M4 = Generation of BMW 3/4-series introduced in 2020
Thank you for the reply, i do appreciate it. My post was not useless though as it sparked your reply which informed and educated me. I am a car/truck person. Just in a vintage and lower end models.
LOL , current vehicles
1994 buick century maroon on maroon.
2001 Dodge 2500 Diesel. Bagged out but still going.
1967 Honda Dream 305.
Last edited by NinePack; 07-09-2021 at 04:10 PM.
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