2010 Blue Jays Season Thread

[moon]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

I disagree, I think the Yankees have come away the biggest losers this off-season. Losing out on Lee all but assured me the Yanks are going to struggle off the mound, and will have to hit their way past Boston. Adding no arms to that rotation (as of yet), is recognizing your biggest weakness and failing to address it. Outside of Sabathia, and somewhat Hughes, there is nothing to fall back on. St. Louis at least has Carpenter/Wainwright, Pujols/Holliday.

While I agree the Cardinals haven't improved whatsoever this off-season, when referring to the Cards/Brewers, I will place money 10 times out of 10 on the team that expects to win, and has a history of winning over the team that has never won. You can't underestimate the importance in the belief of winning, and the experience that goes along with it.

I think the Rasmus/La Russa fued had a lot to do with the demise of that locker room and the slide down the standings. I will never place money against the Cardinals - and I hate the Cardinals.

The Yankees made the play-offs and won a round last year while the Cardinals were badly beaten by a bad Reds team. So the Yankees had the leeway to have a poor off-season. Also, while the Red Sox did improve the Rays lost a ton and no other team in the AL really improved enough to be much of a threat to take the WC from the Yankees if they lose out to the Sox.

The Cardinals struggles last year had a lot to do with the fact that outside of Pujols/Rasmus/Holliday every other position player was a horrible hitter. And outside of Carpenter/Wainwright/Garcia every other pitcher was crap. And that was with nobody having a down season.

The main problem with the Cards last year and this year is as great as he has been, La Russa is trying way too hard to show how smart he is and that he can win with garbage players who he will make into good contributors.

And I love the Cardinals!

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by moon

The Yankees made the play-offs and won a round last year while the Cardinals were badly beaten by a bad Reds team. So the Yankees had the leeway to have a poor off-season. Also, while the Red Sox did improve the Rays lost a ton and no other team in the AL really improved enough to be much of a threat to take the WC from the Yankees if they lose out to the Sox.

The Cardinals struggles last year had a lot to do with the fact that outside of Pujols/Rasmus/Holliday every other position player was a horrible hitter. And outside of Carpenter/Wainwright/Garcia every other pitcher was crap. And that was with nobody having a down season.

The main problem with the Cards last year and this year is as great as he has been, La Russa is trying way too hard to show how smart he is and that he can win with garbage players who he will make into good contributors.

And I love the Cardinals!

Moon, I understand what you are saying, and by no means am I a die hard follower of the St. Louis Cardinals, but who exactly are you referring to when saying this? Do you feel this is La Russa's call on the players being brought in feeling he can make them into more than what they are? Not questioning you, but interested to hear your insight, as like I said, am not a Cardinals follower - just a fan of baseball.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

Moon, I understand what you are saying, and by no means am I a die hard follower of the St. Louis Cardinals, but who exactly are you referring to when saying this? Do you feel this is La Russa's call on the players being brought in feeling he can make them into more than what they are? Not questioning you, but interested to hear your insight, as like I said, am not a Cardinals follower - just a fan of baseball.

I mean that he took Schumacher from the outfield and made him a second baseman. Now Schumacher is a decent 2nd baseman in the field but he is a weak batter. Instead of getting a legit second baseman like Hudson, La Russa seems to prefer forcing Schumacher down our throats instead to show how smart he was to convert him.

The team needed a leader-off hitter and outfielder, but made no play for Crawford at all because La Russa prefers the veteran Berkman out there.

We have seen a rotating door of Ryan, Lopez, Miles at SS despite none of them being close to a decent starter at the position but La Russa likes them because they play defense and "hustle."

Moves like last season consistently playing Randy Winn in the outfield as well is typical of La Russa lately.

While he was successful for not being afraid to make controversial decisions in the past when they made sense it seems that he now makes them just for the sake of making them.

I do think that he has control over personel decisions because Dewitt loves him.

The Cardinals have the best player of the past 40-50 years and instead of taking risks and adding talent like one or more of Crawford, Greinke, Beltre they continue to take the easy road and add nothing. The team is getting older and the window is closing and instead of making a play to win like the Phillies, Yankees in the past and even the Red Sox the Cardinals seem scared that if they make a move they may end up being 4th in the division 3 years from now instead of 3rd and for some reason that is reason enough to sit on their hands.

[ricoFlame]

jays sign a ton of guys, including corey patterson, to minor league deals.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=346379

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

jays sign a ton of guys, including corey patterson, to minor league deals.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=346379

I remember thinking Corey Patterson was a surefire HOFer when he was coming through the Cubs system. Man did he ever destroy minor league pitching.

[dustyanddaflames]

After drinking a bunch over the holidays, the Cincinnati Reds I feel would make wonderful trading partners in the near future. They have Joey Votto locked in until 2013, and if a contract can't be reached due to finances, the Jays will surely have the pieces to be a big player in the Votto sweepstakes. Doesn't hurt the guy in Canadian neither. Highly unlikely, but food for thought.

The name that intrigues me more in Yonder Alonso. Like I said earlier, Votto is a mainstay for the next three years, and Alonso is stuck behind the N.L. MVP for the next three years unless he finds a corner outfield gig. The guy hasn't put up crazy numbers (.290 ba/.820 OPS), but seems likely the Reds will have to make a decision within the next year or two.

Does anyone know anything more on Alonso, can't say I have seen the kid play, but at 23 years of age, lots and lots of time for development.

[TopChed]

Did I see correctly that Dotel is expected to sign with the Jays this season? That seems like a pretty bad move to me.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by TopChed

Did I see correctly that Dotel is expected to sign with the Jays this season? That seems like a pretty bad move to me.

I don't know about that. The team really doesn't have much experience in the bullpen, so having a guy who throws hard, and has been through a few MLB seasons isn't the worst thing. Should the younger guys struggle with closing out games, having a vet like Dotel to turn to could prove usefull.

[secol]

i'm thinking dotel is the closer right now

[Trojan97]

Dotel is an extremely low-risk option at closer. Worst case, you're out 3.5 million and you pick up a supplemental pick. I can't see him being any worse then Gregg.

[SportsJunky]

Dotel is worse than Gregg.

[zukes]

Dotel gets tons of K's but also walks a bunch of guys. Not many guys get hits off of him, but it only takes one after a couple walks.

The Jays are clearly building for years beyond this one and I am fine with that, though I did have hopes that they would make a big run this year. There was enough talent in the FA pool to do that while still keeping all of their prospects.

That being said, I am glad that nothing AA does is half-assed. I imagine when he says it is time, he will be just as all-in about that as he has beeen about building the foundation.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Excited for this Team to hit the Field, reminds me of the Batista, Fullmer, Delgado days "Killers Row in Toronto". This team will tear the cover off teh ball.

I think their in the Playoff chase til Sept. and unlike NYY / BOS they're doing it the "right way".

Go Jays.

[ricoFlame]

"batista, fullmer, delgado"...more like Strikeout row...don't forget about the other strikeout brother, Mondesi.

[dustyanddaflames]

Man that team killed the ball though... was exciting to watch. Too bad the flaming freak, Canseco, wasn't around during them times.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

Man that team killed the ball though... was exciting to watch. Too bad the flaming freak, Canseco, wasn't around during them times.

Speaking of Canseco, he's apparently attempting a comeback.


The Jays look like they'll basically be the same team they were last year more or less. Just have to see if the 85 wins was luck, or if they are actually that good.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The Jays look like they'll basically be the same team they were last year more or less. Just have to see if the 85 wins was luck, or if they are actually that good.

I would see it differently, Jays lineup has had a major shuffle....

Gone from the starting line up

Left Fielder - Lewis
Catcher - Buck
#1 Pitcher - Marcum
setup pitcher - Downs
Closer - Gregg
1st Baseman - Overbay

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by flambers

I would see it differently, Jays lineup has had a major shuffle....

Gone from the starting line up

Left Fielder - Lewis
Catcher - Buck
#1 Pitcher - Marcum
setup pitcher - Downs
Closer - Gregg
1st Baseman - Overbay

Arencibia, Villeneuava, Dotel, and Davis more or less replace all of Lewis, Buck, Downs and Gregg (Slightly better with Davis over Lewis, slightly worse with Villeneuava over Downs)

With Drabek coming in next year, it'll be interesting how the top 4 pitchers fare this year vs last year. Overall, I don't think the jays took a huge step back losing Marcum, as I think Morrow will basically take Marcum's spot and Drabek will take Morrow's. If Lind and EE offense can replace Overbay's defensive contribution then they should be more or less the same there too.

It'll be interesting to see whether or not the Jays go after a third baseman like Beltre, let Lawrie play there or move Bautista there instead. Each of those situations can have a decent impact on how they do next year.

Right now, I think they're probably a 70-75 win team as it sits now, but could go higher depending on how the young players do (Lawrie, Hill, Lind, Snider, Drabek, Rzep, and Stewart)

Can't wait till spring training.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

....
It'll be interesting to see whether or not the Jays go after a third baseman like Beltre, let Lawrie play there or move Bautista there instead. Each of those situations can have a decent impact on how they do next year.

Right now, I think they're probably a 70-75 win team as it sits now, but could go higher depending on how the young players do (Lawrie, Hill, Lind, Snider, Drabek, Rzep, and Stewart)

Can't wait till spring training.

I assumed Lawrie will be our everyday 2nd baseman, and AHill moves to 3rd? Maybe thats dependant on Corey Patterson in Spring Training?

I think Cito pushed this team to a few more wins than they were worth, perhaps at the expense of youth and learning.

Then again its relevant to think that with Halladay in 2010, they coudla easily been a playoff team, the same in 2011 had they kept Marcum, but I like this way of just collecting young players as i think they will all hit stride together in a few years, then you can dole out some money for a couple veteran pitchers - who will want to play for this team then.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Arencibia, Villeneuava, Dotel, and Davis more or less replace all of Lewis, Buck, Downs and Gregg (Slightly better with Davis over Lewis, slightly worse with Villeneuava over Downs)

I figured Villeneuava as more a replacement for Tallet then Downs with Pursey getting the Innings that Downs would have worked. I don`t think JPA`s rookie year can replace Buck`s career year so that will be a loss.

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Right now, I think they're probably a 70-75 win team as it sits now

I`m pegging them in at around 80-85 wins myself. Offensively the team looks only very slightly worse due to Buck's departure. the big question will be the back end of the rotation, if Drabek and (I think) Rzepchynski can replace Marcum and the #5 slot from last year then I think they can hit 85 wins again.

I'd like to see the Jays add another big bat to the line-up to DH before the season starts. I'm fine with having EE at 3B for another year and I think a high OBP guy with some residual power could do wonders short-term.