Israel declares war on Hamas

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I have no idea what hit the building, but how does an unguided Hamas rocket take out a hospital? The rockets they use are mostly 10-20kg bombs, which is about 1/100th the size Israel has been using to take out even small buildings (they use multiple 2,000lb JDAMs for larger buildings).

First of all Hamas has a verity of rockets. It doesn't have to be a Kassam rocket, it could just as easily be a R160, or any of the rockets that Hamas uses to hit Gush-Dan, which was under fire today.

Second of all the destruction seems to have been a little exaggerated from the start. Started with hundreds of dead, now only tenths.

Third, I didn't see anyone here even mentioning the hospital in Ashkelon being hit by rockets twice.

Anyways, I'm not surprised everything is blamed on Israel. It seems like the much easier narrative, than believing that Hamas doesn't care, or ever did about the people in Gaza.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

First of all Hamas has a verity of rockets. It doesn't have to be a Kassam rocket, it could just as easily be a R160, or any of the rockets that Hamas uses to hit Gush-Dan, which was under fire today.

Second of all the destruction seems to have been a little exaggerated from the start. Started with hundreds of dead, now only tenths.

Third, I didn't see anyone here even mentioning the hospital in Ashkelon being hit by rockets twice.

Anyways, I'm not surprised everything is blamed on Israel. It seems like the much easier narrative, than believing that Hamas doesn't care, or ever did about the people in Gaza.

4th, how about we wait for some actual verification? People were saying they hoped the reports weren’t accurate. You came in swinging claiming to know exactly what happened. Chill.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Can’t trust Al Jazeera, but why not trust a random Israeli source on Telegram.

Trust w.e you want. One side has posted information blaming Israel, the other side posted information that contradicts it. You will question absolutely everything, that doesn't agree with your point of view as always.

[PepsiFree]

That Hamas doesn’t care about civilians and never did and that Israel indiscriminately bombs public buildings are both easily believable narratives because they are both true.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Trust w.e you want. One side has posted information blaming Israel, the other side posted information that contradicts it. You will question absolutely everything, that doesn't agree with your point of view as always.

One side posted an article from the Times of Israel and said “hope this isn’t true.” One side posted random videos from an Israeli telegram account and said “IT ISNT BECAUSE SEE?”

These are not equal, and you can make this about me, but you could also just stop spreading misinformation and unverified information from hate breeding grounds and expecting everyone to go “oh wow, thanks so much for the great source of information!”

[blankall]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I have no idea what hit the building, but how does an unguided Hamas rocket take out a hospital? The rockets they use are mostly 10-20kg bombs, which is about 1/100th the size Israel has been using to take out even small buildings (they use multiple 2,000lb JDAMs for larger buildings).

It didn't take out the whole hospital. Now Hamas is revising the death toll down from 500 to dozens. A tragedy either way.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Trust w.e you want. One side has posted information blaming Israel, the other side posted information that contradicts it. You will question absolutely everything, that doesn't agree with your point of view as always.

And you have shown a willingness and gullibility to post and believe everything that confirms your bias claiming nearly anything and everything as "plausible".

In fact you're so much in the know as to what happened you're way ahead of the IDF.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714336310683713551

[Beninho]

My only observation is that from the only video that seems verifiable you cannot hear any plane from above. I don’t think there have been any other videos released that are geolocated that can prove it was one or the other. I would wait before jumping to any conclusions.

[WCW Nitro]

The Palestinians don't have rockets that can level a hospital. And this "it was a Palestinian misfire" also surprisingly happens every war and always hits a big civilian building, must be a coincidence.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Beninho

My only observation is that from the only video that seems verifiable you cannot hear any plane from above. I don’t think there have been any other videos released that are geolocated that can prove it was one or the other. I would wait before jumping to any conclusions.

With drones and rockets I don't think it matters one iota whether or not you hear a plane.

[Lanny_McDonald]

The mental gymnastics one must go through to defend some of the stuff going on. It's like a twist on the old Chuck Norris jokes. Israel doesn't do bad things. Only bad things happen to Israel. Or, Israel doesn't make mistakes, mistakes only happen to Israel.

;-)

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Sliver

With drones and rockets I don't think it matters one iota whether or not you hear a plane.

That’s fair, in most videos i have watched over the last week you do usually hear an aircraft. Will wait to see when all the information comes out.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Beninho

My only observation is that from the only video that seems verifiable you cannot hear any plane from above. I don’t think there have been any other videos released that are geolocated that can prove it was one or the other. I would wait before jumping to any conclusions.

While I agree no one should jump to conclusions, I wouldn't take the lack of plane noise to mean anything. The JDAMs that Israel has been using are guided bombs that can be launched from 40-50,000 feet and 20-25 kms from the target.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

As someone watching everything from the sidelines, I gotta say, if that hospital bombing was done on purpose by Israel, that’s pretty gross. I hope some of the reports are wrong.

Video is showing up that it was a misfire of a Hamas rocket, IDF claims that there were no aircraft in the area.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Video is showing up that it was a misfire of a Hamas rocket, IDF claims that there were no aircraft in the area.

Yeah? Post them, then.

There are videos a few posts up that show random blobs of light off in the distance of a city skyline. I couldn't make out even an explosion, let alone have any way of verifying what was hit (couldn't see anything hit, myself).

[CaptainCrunch]

I mean take it for what it is, the first two don't have a date stamp. but the last one does.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714351450724213064

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714342217870164373

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714353104496243047

[Manhattanboy]

Take it for what its worth but one IDF commander suggested a ground offensive into Gaza is not a certainty.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714342217870164373

The ever-trustworthy account type, the "[Place] War Room"

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I mean take it for what it is, the first two don't have a date stamp. but the last one does.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714351450724213064

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714342217870164373

https://twitter.com/user/status/1714353104496243047

I watched that last one like three times. I see a little bloop of some sort, but there's no way on god's green earth anybody could watch any of those videos and tell where anything happened, what was hit, what the damage was or anything of any value whatsoever.

What a mess this thing is.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Just based on what I'm reading...

a) Hamas officials claim that Israel bombed a hospital killing hundreds of people;
b) Israel says it did not bomb this hospital and had no aircraft in the area;
c) Israeli news says it has footage of a misfired rocket in the area and speculates that that must have been what caused the hospital damage;
d) Hamas officials change the estimate of dead from hundreds to dozens.

... How can you have any idea what's going on? How can literally ANYONE be certain that Israel is lying about this, or for that matter, that they aren't? There is just a serious lack of credible information.

One question I have is, is there recent precedent for a strike of this size where Israel denies doing it altogether? I would have thought that the usual pattern is that it's clear that they did it, but that they claim to have justification. I wouldn't have thought the normal modus operandi for the IDF would involve destroying large pieces of infrastructure and then claiming that they don't know anything about it (generally because one would expect such denials to be easily disproven). But maybe there are examples of this having happened before that I'm not aware of.