[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I think the other interesting thing to see if occurs (outside of when / if the relocation to a new city card gets played), would be if the Flames actually pull an alternate location but still "Calgary" card. I'm no fan of a non DT arena for the Flames or the city, but the Flames can certainly explore alternative options / partnerships that are local to Calgary, but don't include the city - thinking Balzac and Tsuut'ina Nation for example.

[Monahammer]

^ it's an empty threat. Look at how much Ottawa suffered doing that. Plus they'd have to foot more of the overall bill.

The owners clearly value attendance. They're probably not stupid enough to throw that away by building far away from the core/ infrastructure. Much more likely that the city finds someone else to build the arena and take advantage of property development opportunities.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

^ it's an empty threat. Look at how much Ottawa suffered doing that. Plus they'd have to foot more of the overall bill.

The owners clearly value attendance. They're probably not stupid enough to throw that away by building far away from the core/ infrastructure. Much more likely that the city finds someone else to build the arena and take advantage of property development opportunities.

It might be an empty threat, although I not sure some of the options available in Calgary necessarily end up in an Ottawa situation.

My point wasn't me advocating for it though, I can't wrap my head around a non DT arena for the Flames or the city. Empty threat or even if it isn't, I'm going to be interested to see if the Flames look into these and mention them publicly, whether as a negotiation tactic or because they view them as a viable option.

[nik-]

I'm excited for the "buckets on seats because of the leaky roof" phase of this show.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm excited for the "buckets on seats because of the leaky roof" phase of this show.

Umm, that's sustainable seat-side water service, thank you very much.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm excited for the "buckets on seats because of the leaky roof" phase of this show.

Pfft...that just like a consistent re-flooding of the ice!

Its a feature!!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I think the other interesting thing to see if occurs (outside of when / if the relocation to a new city card gets played), would be if the Flames actually pull an alternate location but still "Calgary" card. I'm no fan of a non DT arena for the Flames or the city, but the Flames can certainly explore alternative options / partnerships that are local to Calgary, but don't include the city - thinking Balzac and Tsuut'ina Nation for example.

you laugh now but pretty soon you will be a Balzac Ball Sack fan

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

It might be an empty threat, although I not sure some of the options available in Calgary necessarily end up in an Ottawa situation.

My point wasn't me advocating for it though, I can't wrap my head around a non DT arena for the Flames or the city. Empty threat or even if it isn't, I'm going to be interested to see if the Flames look into these and mention them publicly, whether as a negotiation tactic or because they view them as a viable option.

The Senators have shown this just isn't a viable option. It's an empty threat and should always be treated as such.



Tsuu Tina might have the money behind them to pull something off, but both locations require so much parking to cannibalize any potential real estate development and kill the entertainment aspect. It also creates long travel distances for people with restricted mode share that will really hurt attendance during bleak times.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I think the other interesting thing to see if occurs (outside of when / if the relocation to a new city card gets played), would be if the Flames actually pull an alternate location but still "Calgary" card. I'm no fan of a non DT arena for the Flames or the city, but the Flames can certainly explore alternative options / partnerships that are local to Calgary, but don't include the city - thinking Balzac and Tsuut'ina Nation for example.

IIRC there was some sort of offer/proposal rolled out by Tsuut'ina Nation a number of years back where they would pay for the arena but would share concession and parking revenue with the Flames. I don't have a rock solid source but I was told it was a thanks but no thanks.

Calgary doesn't have enough population to put a major arena out in the outskirts. It already failed with Arizona and Ottawa so I seriously doubt CSEC would even float the idea.

The only area I think might work, and a soft might, is near McMahon in partnership with the U of C and all the land they have there. There's already traffic issues in the area though so it would be a mess IMO.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Calgary '89

The only area I think might work, and a soft might, is near McMahon in partnership with the U of C and all the land they have there. There's already traffic issues in the area though so it would be a mess IMO.

Plus, I believe the university doesn't even want McMahon Stadium there quite honestly. They put up with it, but if there was a choice for a new football stadium to be elsewhere (Stampede/Firepark/other), they would gladly tear down the stadium. They would build a smaller scale one on their campus likely near the Children's Hospital (according to their latest campus plan), and have real estate development occur on McMahon lands to monetize it like University District.

Having the arena take away more space from real estate development is probably something the university initially wouldn't be supportive of.

That is unless...the arena would be built beside the fieldhouse proposed to the north of McMahon, which is city lands...

CalgaryNEXT 2!

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I think the other interesting thing to see if occurs (outside of when / if the relocation to a new city card gets played), would be if the Flames actually pull an alternate location but still "Calgary" card. I'm no fan of a non DT arena for the Flames or the city, but the Flames can certainly explore alternative options / partnerships that are local to Calgary, but don't include the city - thinking Balzac and Tsuut'ina Nation for example.

I wonder how much COVID and the shift to the mobile work force changes the idea that this is a "empty threat".

With a work force that is moving to be more mobile...does having a rink downtown mean as much as it did before COVID?

It doesn't neccessarily have to be Balzac or Tsuut'ina but I do wonder if the Flames might be looking at a different land location here.

There is a lot of land in and around the airport too in NE Calgary around airport trail / country hills / 36th street area.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I wonder how much COVID and the shift to the mobile work force changes the idea that this is a "empty threat".

With a work force that is moving to be more mobile...does having a rink downtown mean as much as it did before COVID?

It doesn't neccessarily have to be Balzac or Tsuut'ina but I do wonder if the Flames might be looking at a different land location here.

There is a lot of land in and around the airport too in NE Calgary...

It is less about the actual location and more about the amenities and accessibility. Stampede Park/downtown is good because of the train and all the other amenities such as restaurants, casinos, bars and hotels. All of that adds to the experience of a game.

Going out to a box box elsewhere in the city to watch a game without other entertainment options readily available will silly the experience of game night.

[_Q_]

Yeah, part of the appeal of going to a game is making a night of it. I can't see myself heading out to Balzac on a Tuesday night in February, just to drive home afterwards for 45 minutes.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

It is less about the actual location and more about the amenities and accessibility. Stampede Park/downtown is good because of the train and all the other amenities such as restaurants, casinos, bars and hotels. All of that adds to the experience of a game.

Going out to a box box elsewhere in the city to watch a game without other entertainment options readily available will silly the experience of game night.

Grey Eagle is - what - 5 minutes from Chinook Centre/MacLeod Trail? And you don't think the other amenities would spring up in the area in the time it would take the build the arena??

Really the only downside to building there would be no C-Train... and don't get me wrong - I consider that quite significant. But the lands over there should not be discarded out of hand... and I think the Tsuu T'ina Nation would consider getting that development quite the feather in their cap, so they would be eager to help out in any way.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

It is less about the actual location and more about the amenities and accessibility. Stampede Park/downtown is good because of the train and all the other amenities such as restaurants, casinos, bars and hotels. All of that adds to the experience of a game.

Going out to a box box elsewhere in the city to watch a game without other entertainment options readily available will silly the experience of game night.

You're operating on the basis of "that, then this" but sometimes it can be "this, then that". I agree that too far along the outskirts of town makes no sense, but I see no reason to be attached to downtown.


If the city wanted to take a page from Edmonton's playbook, they could use it as an excuse/partnership to somehow gentrify and revitalize the Forest Lawn area by turning someplace like Marlborough Mall into a hockey district. Still relatively central, easily accessible via LRT as well as Memorial Drive, reasonably close to a casino and the nearby hotels that used to benefit from Barlow trail leading to the airport. Bars and restaurants? What's the old adage? "build it and they will come"?

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Grey Eagle is - what - 5 minutes from Chinook Centre/MacLeod Trail?

Have you tried to take Glenmore from Chinook to Grey Eagle during rush hour? Good luck with that.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Grey Eagle is - what - 5 minutes from Chinook Centre/MacLeod Trail? And you don't think the other amenities would spring up in the area in the time it would take the build the arena??

Really the only downside to building there would be no C-Train... and don't get me wrong - I consider that quite significant. But the lands over there should not be discarded out of hand... and I think the Tsuu T'ina Nation would consider getting that development quite the feather in their cap, so they would be eager to help out in any way.

"Help out in any way" meaning "give CSEC" 400 million dollar subsidy? Not sure I understand the incentive to do that.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I wonder how much COVID and the shift to the mobile work force changes the idea that this is a "empty threat".

With a work force that is moving to be more mobile...does having a rink downtown mean as much as it did before COVID?

It doesn't neccessarily have to be Balzac or Tsuut'ina but I do wonder if the Flames might be looking at a different land location here.

There is a lot of land in and around the airport too in NE Calgary around airport trail / country hills / 36th street area.

A lot of American mid-size cities are having quite thriving suburban areas with lots of good shopping, entertainment, restaurants, hotels, etc, that are well located for a lot of people to get to and people have been working at home or suburban office parks for years. But most of the cities I think of, the population tends to grow around one geographic corner. Calgary seems very much spread out evenly around downtown. A far south or far NW arena pretty much takes half the city out of the market.

[getbak]

I used to live by Chinook and went to Grey Eagle quite a lot (this was prior to the ring road) and it was a good 10-15 minute drive on a Friday/Saturday evening with basically no traffic.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You're operating on the basis of "that, then this" but sometimes it can be "this, then that". I agree that too far along the outskirts of town makes no sense, but I see no reason to be attached to downtown.


If the city wanted to take a page from Edmonton's playbook, they could use it as an excuse/partnership to somehow gentrify and revitalize the Forest Lawn area by turning someplace like Marlborough Mall into a hockey district. Still relatively central, easily accessible via LRT as well as Memorial Drive, reasonably close to a casino and the nearby hotels that used to benefit from Barlow trail leading to the airport. Bars and restaurants? What's the old adage? "build it and they will come"?

I know you have no idea who I am, but to be up front I generally roll my eyes at the majority of your posts - we just don't view things the same.

This idea - however - I find most fascinating. I have never heard nor considered this possibility, but I think it could be a great alternate location.
I think the C-train line would probably have to go underground as it causes 1/2 of the traffic problems in that area, but it's definitely an out-of-box idea.

At the end of the day though, aren't we talking the same problem? It would require a joint CSEC/City venture that is giving us the headache we are suffering from right now. Or did I miss something and the location change means something?