[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Wolven

The guy is a professional and is doing the right thing in front of the camera but I have my doubts that he is "legitimately happy" about being traded from a playoff / cup contender to one of the basement dwellers of this season. The guy is most likely hoping that if he has a good attitude and plays well that he'll get traded back to a contender before the deadline.

This is good because one of the main drivers for trading Andersson instead of extending him was to make room for the young guys. Now the same logic applies to Whitecloud.

IMO, trading Whitecloud for another 1st would definitely help deal with some of the disappointment of the Andersson trade. Trading him for "more lesser parts" would compound the disappointment.

I thought it was a good trade. People expected way too much.

[Brad Marsh]

Here's a recent rumor that has Whitecloud going to Buffalo for a 3rd-round pick and a B prospect: https://www.nhltraderumor.com/buffal...algary-flames/

If Conroy can get a 1st or a 1st+ from someone for Whitecloud, I hope he makes that deal!

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

Here's a recent rumor that has Whitecloud going to Buffalo for a 3rd-round pick and a B prospect: https://www.nhltraderumor.com/buffal...algary-flames/

If Conroy can get a 1st or a 1st+ from someone for Whitecloud, I hope he makes that deal!

That's a really pathetic proposal.

From my perspective, this is a no-brainer for Buffalo.

Sure is.

The market for right-shot defensemen is notoriously thin and expensive (just look at what Andersson commanded). Getting a guy with term who is under 30 for a mid-round pick and a prospect is tidy business.

Right-handed defencemen are so expensive! But if Buffalo can get this one for cheap, that'd be tidy business.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

Here's a recent rumor that has Whitecloud going to Buffalo for a 3rd-round pick and a B prospect: https://www.nhltraderumor.com/buffal...algary-flames/

If Conroy can get a 1st or a 1st+ from someone for Whitecloud, I hope he makes that deal!

More of a spit balling than a rumour from what I see.

Local market writer sees a player and comes up with a weak package to obtain him.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That's a really pathetic proposal.



Sure is.



Right-handed defencemen are so expensive! But if Buffalo can get this one for cheap, that'd be tidy business.

The writer defeats himself in the analysis. Hockeybuzz is more rigorous.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I thought it was a good trade. People expected way too much.

You aren't wrong, but at the same time people were conditioned to expect a lot.

Last year being told that Andersson with 2 playoff runs was worth a ton to any contending team. Didn't happen, Flames were in the hunt and Ras was hurt.

Last summer, even after the initial drama of him only wanting to sign with Vegas there were rumblings of other deals that were a haul (Dreger's report of LA, which turned out to be not a haul either had it happened) or teams that would pay through the nose since he was the best RHD on the market.

The days leading up to the actual trade and twitter insiders telling fans that Danielson was on the table may have skewed some thinking. Hard to say.

But also the constant noise on 960 from Steinberg and his guests like Seravalli telling us almost weekly that Ras was going to command a helluva return.

Now, their idea of a great return and the average fans idea could be entirely different, and thats on fans for reading too much into it.

But I think there were definite reasons people had high expectations and felt let down.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

You aren't wrong, but at the same time people were conditioned to expect a lot.

Last year being told that Andersson with 2 playoff runs was worth a ton to any contending team. Didn't happen, Flames were in the hunt and Ras was hurt.

Last summer, even after the initial drama of him only wanting to sign with Vegas there were rumblings of other deals that were a haul (Dreger's report of LA, which turned out to be not a haul either had it happened) or teams that would pay through the nose since he was the best RHD on the market.

The days leading up to the actual trade and twitter insiders telling fans that Danielson was on the table may have skewed some thinking. Hard to say.

But also the constant noise on 960 from Steinberg and his guests like Seravalli telling us almost weekly that Ras was going to command a helluva return.

Now, their idea of a great return and the average fans idea could be entirely different, and thats on fans for reading too much into it.

But I think there were definite reasons people had high expectations and felt let down.

But who was saying "worth a ton to any contending team", and were they even looking at what teams possibly had to offer. The trouble with these vague reports and rumours is that they never consider the other team, its contracts and what they would want to do without wrecking their own team.

Conroy's ask was pretty plain - two firsts or the equivalent and he got that.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But who was saying "worth a ton to any contending team", and were they even looking at what teams possibly had to offer. The trouble with these vague reports and rumours is that they never consider the other team, its contracts and what they would want to do without wrecking their own team.

Conroy's ask was pretty plain - two firsts or the equivalent and he got that.

The Frank's of the world. Dreger. Pierre. I think Friedman was the only one that said something along of the lines of "Conroy will get what he wants". Even then we had all heard how keen Conroy was to get a young center back in any deal. There are fans who were expecting a lot because they were basically told to expect a lot.

[Strange Brew]

I also think the equivalency of first round picks from different years is misleading.

Does anyone think the 2028 2nd, Whitecloud and the prospect we acquired could get you into the 1st round this year? It's possible I guess, but no sure thing.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I thought it was a good trade. People expected way too much.

People usually do overrate their own players and expect too much in return. I partially blame "insiders" who talk things up for attention and clicks. Then when the trade underwhelms, people blame the GM instead of the insiders for being wrong or miscalculating on their end.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I also think the equivalency of first round picks from different years is misleading.

Does anyone think the 2028 2nd, Whitecloud and the prospect we acquired could get you into the 1st round this year? It's possible I guess, but no sure thing.

Well, if people thought "the equivalent of two first rounders" was going to be two 2026 firsts, they didn't think it through.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I thought it was a good trade. People expected way too much.

In spite of what people saw about my hopes for the trade, my expectations were pretty low, I'd say my main expectation was "Anyone but Vegas".

If we had gotten the same return from any other team it would have been good. Or we could have gotten a lesser return from another team and the result would have been superior.

Winning the division already impacts the pick we hold by forcing it to be 28th or later. IMO, the worst case scenario for the Flames (and most likely to happen) is that Vegas wins the division (picking 28-31) and does not win the cup (we only get a 2nd instead of another 1st). Conroy should have demanded that the conditional pick be triggered by the 2026 pick being 28th or later instead of just based on it landing on #32.

Thus, if we can trade Whitecloud for a 1st then that would mitigate the self-sabotage of making Vegas stronger but failing to get a better condition on the 2nd round pick. If we can get a 2026 1st then that would be best as there is some urgency to speed this rebuild up with a number of good young players already in place on the NHL roster.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I also think the equivalency of first round picks from different years is misleading.

Does anyone think the 2028 2nd, Whitecloud and the prospect we acquired could get you into the 1st round this year? It's possible I guess, but no sure thing.

You don't think Whitecloud + 2nd (28) gets you a 1st (26)?

I think it easily does - from a value perspective. Actually finding a dance partner for a trade is another matter. But for value, it's more than fair.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You don't think Whitecloud + 2nd (28) gets you a 1st (26)?

I think it easily does - from a value perspective. Actually finding a dance partner for a trade is another matter. But for value, it's more than fair.

It's generously fair.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It's generously fair.

I actually think it’d be a bad trade from the Flames perspective

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I actually think it’d be a bad trade from the Flames perspective

I agree, I meant to imply that Whitecloud plus a second can easily get you a first.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You don't think Whitecloud + 2nd (28) gets you a 1st (26)?

I think it easily does - from a value perspective. Actually finding a dance partner for a trade is another matter. But for value, it's more than fair.

At the TDL you may, the wizard may be desperate enough to give you his next 1st for that package

At the draft, hell no

[united]

Friedman on 32 Thoughts with a touch on Andersson:

(RE: Panarin) "There's a couple of different things that have to happen here. One, Panarin has to decide what's most important to him, the number, the location, the team, and then you have to make a deal.

Remember when Giroux got traded to Florida, he decided that's (the only place) he was going to go, and then Philly fought to try to get the best deal they possibly could. Initially, the deal (the Flyers) got was not the one that was presented to them (by the Panthers). And there was pressure on (the Flyers) with (the Panthers) saying "he's not going anywhere else, he's not going anywhere else" and Philly said, look, he's not going anywhere at all unless we get a little bit better than this (offer). And they did.

And that happened to Calgary, too, with Rasmus Andersson and Vegas. The deal that Vegas initially offered was not what (the Flames) eventually got. And, you know, I think very clearly at the end, it was obvious it was going to be Vegas for Anderson when he said he wasn't willing to sign extension anywhere else. But Calgary said (to Vegas), look, we won't do it at all unless we get more. And they got a bit more.

So, then it becomes, because there's no question that the team that is going to get Panarin is going to initially be like, well, you've got to deal with us, so you're getting a roll of quarters and a non-functioning iPod case. And the Rangers are going be like, no, that's not the way this trade is going to happen."

[Buff]

Originally Posted by united

Friedman on 32 Thoughts with a touch on Andersson:

(RE: Panarin) "There's a couple of different things that have to happen here. One, Panarin has to decide what's most important to him, the number, the location, the team, and then you have to make a deal.

Remember when Giroux got traded to Florida, he decided that's (the only place) he was going to go, and then Philly fought to try to get the best deal they possibly could. Initially, the deal (the Flyers) got was not the one that was presented to them (by the Panthers). And there was pressure on (the Flyers) with (the Panthers) saying "he's not going anywhere else, he's not going anywhere else" and Philly said, look, he's not going anywhere at all unless we get a little bit better than this (offer). And they did.

And that happened to Calgary, too, with Rasmus Andersson and Vegas. The deal that Vegas initially offered was not what (the Flames) eventually got. And, you know, I think very clearly at the end, it was obvious it was going to be Vegas for Anderson when he said he wasn't willing to sign extension anywhere else. But Calgary said (to Vegas), look, we won't do it at all unless we get more. And they got a bit more.

So, then it becomes, because there's no question that the team that is going to get Panarin is going to initially be like, well, you've got to deal with us, so you're getting a roll of quarters and a non-functioning iPod case. And the Rangers are going be like, no, that's not the way this trade is going to happen."

Slight difference in scenarios. Panarin has a full NMC. He's only going to where he wants to go. Chances are that he's already picked the team and they just have to agree what the extension will look like. Once that is decided that is the only team that NYR can deal with. They aren't going to get a massive pay for him.

With Andersson the Flames could choose to trade him elsewhere because he didn't have a full NMC. If the Flames didn't like Vegas' offer then they could just say "You're trying to rip us off, no Andersson for you!". It sounds like they did that until Vegas offered something that Conroy was happy with. NYR just doesn't have that luxury. They only luxury they have is Panarin is an elite player in the league. He'll produce wherever he goes and he's practically guaranteed to do so at his next stop not just because of his talent but also because he's choosing the situation that works for him.

[CliffFletcher]

At this point, you have to assume any player you deal in their last season under contract is getting a rental value. Players have so much control over where they sign - and are willing to exercise it - that getting a better return for having an extension in place isn’t really a thing. And in most case ‘we’ll trade for him as a rental and then hope he extends’ is wishful thinking. The buying team will pay the price of a playoff run, that’s it.