Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's an interesting thing to look into, probably the best way is to just pick his most frequent linemates and see how they do with and without him.

By time it's three guys ... James Neal, Mark Janowski and Derek Ryan

James Neal 101 minutes

Together
CF% 51%
SCF% 57%
HD% 61%
Goal split 4-5

Neal w/o Bennett
CF% 52%
SCF% 40%
HD% 38%
Goal split 4-6

Bennett w/o Neal
CF% 57%
SCF% 56%
HD% 59%
Goal split 3-2

Answer: Neal hurting Bennett

Mark Jankowski 60 Minutes

Together
CF% 49%
SCF% 52%
HD% 56%
Goal split 0-4

Jankowski w/o Bennett
CF% 53%
SCF% 50%
HD% 38%
Goal split 4-2

Bennett w/o Jankowski
CF% 57%
SCF% 57%
HD% 61%
Goal split 7-3

Answer: Jankowski hurting Bennett

Derek Ryan 62 Minutes

Together
CF% 61%
SCF% 59%
HD% 63%
Goal split 3-1

Ryan w/o Bennett
CF% 50%
SCF% 48%
HD% 43%
Goal split 2-5

Bennett w/o Ryan
CF% 52%
SCF% 55%
HD% 58%
Goal split 4-6

Answer: Ryan hurting Bennett

Great question, and a good answer for what Peters is trying to do. It appears that Bennett is better away from the current lot of third linders that he's been lined up with. Maybe he can help drive the 3M line back to scoring on five on five basis.

I found this interesting. At times I can see Bennett passing to his line-mates in open spaces and for whatever reason they are not finishing. Could it be quality of line-mate's or Bennett using his line-mates.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's an interesting thing to look into, probably the best way is to just pick his most frequent linemates and see how they do with and without him.

By time it's three guys ... James Neal, Mark Janowski and Derek Ryan

James Neal 101 minutes

Together
CF% 51%
SCF% 57%
HD% 61%
Goal split 4-5

Neal w/o Bennett
CF% 52%
SCF% 40%
HD% 38%
Goal split 4-6

Bennett w/o Neal
CF% 57%
SCF% 56%
HD% 59%
Goal split 3-2

Answer: Neal hurting Bennett

Mark Jankowski 60 Minutes

Together
CF% 49%
SCF% 52%
HD% 56%
Goal split 0-4

Jankowski w/o Bennett
CF% 53%
SCF% 50%
HD% 38%
Goal split 4-2

Bennett w/o Jankowski
CF% 57%
SCF% 57%
HD% 61%
Goal split 7-3

Answer: Jankowski hurting Bennett

Derek Ryan 62 Minutes

Together
CF% 61%
SCF% 59%
HD% 63%
Goal split 3-1

Ryan w/o Bennett
CF% 50%
SCF% 48%
HD% 43%
Goal split 2-5

Bennett w/o Ryan
CF% 52%
SCF% 55%
HD% 58%
Goal split 4-6

Answer: Ryan hurting Bennett

Great question, and a good answer for what Peters is trying to do. It appears that Bennett is better away from the current lot of third linders that he's been lined up with. Maybe he can help drive the 3M line back to scoring on five on five basis.

Not sure what those numbers mean exactly so be patient with me.

Is it possible that a player that goes to the net a lot more than his linemates would creat this result in numbers? As in events in the home plate.

What im getting at is that I think that Bennett is a bit selfish and he ends up taking the puck towards the net without using his linemates. Which may be good on surface, but he seems to panic and lacks finish, thus it's counter productive. This makes his home plate presence, shot stats look good while his linemates barely register.

It's kind of my impression of him. Plays hard but with blinders on,takes the puck and gets himself in trouble by hitting traffic in front or gets chased to the boards.

Would be nice to see a compilation of his goals from year 1 to see how his game was then.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Red

Not sure what those numbers mean exactly so be patient with me.

Is it possible that a player that goes to the net a lot more than his linemates would creat this result in numbers? As in events in the home plate.

What im getting at is that I think that Bennett is a bit selfish and he ends up taking the puck towards the net without using his linemates. Which may be good on surface, but he seems to panic and lacks finish, thus it's counter productive. This makes his home plate presence, shot stats look good while his linemates barely register.

It's kind of my impression of him. Plays hard but with blinders on,takes the puck and gets himself in trouble by hitting traffic in front or gets chased to the boards.

Would be nice to see a compilation of his goals from year 1 to see how his game was then.

In simple terms it appears he is carrying the play more himself than his most frequent linemates.

I agree that he calls his own number often, I think whether that is selfish or not depends on your bias for or against the player.

But the goal splits are on his side too, so it's not just shot metrics that have him ahead on splits over his linemates.

The numbers above suggest he should be promoted and see what happens; exactly what appears Peters has done.

Also looks like he and Ryan work but he and Jankowski do not.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bingo

In simple terms it appears he is carrying the play more himself than his most frequent linemates.

I agree that he calls his own number often, I think whether that is selfish or not depends on your bias for or against the player.

But the goal splits are on his side too, so it's not just shot metrics that have him ahead on splits over his linemates.

The numbers above suggest he should be promoted and see what happens; exactly what appears Peters has done.

Also looks like he and Ryan work but he and Jankowski do not.

I say selfish in the least mean way. It seems like the game speeds up when he has the puck and he has no time to find his linemates, he ends up taking the whole play to himself.

In contrast we have Johnny who carries the puck a lot, but slows the game down.
Should add that Backlund is also great at slowing it down for the linemates to set up.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Red

I say selfish in the least mean way. It seems like the game speeds up when he has the puck and he has no time to find his linemates, he ends up taking the whole play to himself.

In contrast we have Johnny who carries the puck a lot, but slows the game down.
Should add that Backlund is also great at slowing it down for the linemates to set up.

And selfish is good for the most part.

The always pass first guys are equally as guilty as the always shoot first guys in being too predictable.

[dustygoon]

Lebrun with no-news news:

Other notes from around the league:
My understanding is that Sam Bennett’s camp spoke with Flames GM Brad Treliving a few days ago. This issue really dates back to last season when Bennett’s role and ice time led to frustration. Other teams inquired but Treliving refused to get into that. And that remains the same today. Treliving has zero intention of trading Bennett.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Lebrun with no-news news:

Pretty big news in my mind.

[Bingo]

I'm guessing (guessing, just guessing) that agents talk to GMs all the time, and most would push for a bigger role and more ice time etc.

So if that's the case this isn't news at all, unless you consider Treliving's firm not trading Bennett to be newsworthy.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Toonage

From Pierre LeBrun's Athletic article this morning:

Other notes from around the league:

My understanding is that Sam Bennett’s camp spoke with Flames GM Brad Treliving a few days ago. This issue really dates back to last season when Bennett’s role and ice time led to frustration. Other teams inquired but Treliving refused to get into that. And that remains the same today. Treliving has zero intention of trading Bennett. There may come a time if things don’t improve that the Bennett camp puts more heat on this situation but as far as I can tell, the Flames GM strongly believes the answer lies in Bennett finding his way in Calgary and not anywhere else.

So, Lebrun is saying that Bennett's agent had another discussion with Treliving "a few days ago" about Bennett's role and ice time, which coincides with when we saw Bennett get some looks on the second line and based on yesterday's practice, will see Bennett start the next game on the second line. Hopefully Bennett steps up and seizes this opportunity.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's an interesting thing to look into, probably the best way is to just pick his most frequent linemates and see how they do with and without him.

By time it's three guys ... James Neal, Mark Janowski and Derek Ryan

James Neal 101 minutes

Together
CF% 51%
SCF% 57%
HD% 61%
Goal split 4-5

Neal w/o Bennett
CF% 52%
SCF% 40%
HD% 38%
Goal split 4-6

Bennett w/o Neal
CF% 57%
SCF% 56%
HD% 59%
Goal split 3-2

Answer: Neal hurting Bennett

Mark Jankowski 60 Minutes

Together
CF% 49%
SCF% 52%
HD% 56%
Goal split 0-4

Jankowski w/o Bennett
CF% 53%
SCF% 50%
HD% 38%
Goal split 4-2

Bennett w/o Jankowski
CF% 57%
SCF% 57%
HD% 61%
Goal split 7-3

Answer: Jankowski hurting Bennett

Derek Ryan 62 Minutes

Together
CF% 61%
SCF% 59%
HD% 63%
Goal split 3-1

Ryan w/o Bennett
CF% 50%
SCF% 48%
HD% 43%
Goal split 2-5

Bennett w/o Ryan
CF% 52%
SCF% 55%
HD% 58%
Goal split 4-6

Answer: Ryan hurting Bennett

Great question, and a good answer for what Peters is trying to do. It appears that Bennett is better away from the current lot of third linders that he's been lined up with. Maybe he can help drive the 3M line back to scoring on five on five basis.

Thanks, those stats are interesting. Would you be able to do the same for Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund and Tkachuk? Would be interesting to see if they perform better with Bennett as their linemate than when Lindholm, Frolik or even Ferland from last season are with them.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm guessing (guessing, just guessing) that agents talk to GMs all the time, and most would push for a bigger role and more ice time etc.

So if that's the case this isn't news at all, unless you consider Treliving's firm not trading Bennett to be newsworthy.

Sometimes things can be hashed out and understandings can be reached but any time an agent feels the need to essentially vent to a team about his client's role and is said to be unhappy, it's not a positive sign.

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/n...rs-management/

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by activeStick

So, Lebrun is saying that Bennett's agent had another discussion with Treliving "a few days ago" about Bennett's role and ice time, which coincides with when we saw Bennett get some looks on the second line and based on yesterday's practice, will see Bennett start the next game on the second line. Hopefully Bennett steps up and seizes this opportunity.

I highly doubt that is how it played out.

If GMs let discussions with players agents decide ice time we would be in a totally different and ridiculous world.

To me Lebrun is grasping at straws a little bit. I'd imagine that agents are talking to GMs regularly, and especially when the player needs a new contract at the end of the season.

Everything Bennett has done this season, aside from not finishing, has been positive and he has been a very impactful force game in game out.

Hopefully Tre isn't looking to move him at the end of the season

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Dion Phagoof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPxcXk0zfQQ

What happened to Bennett? His confidence has just been killed, he looks so different in his rookie season. Was it Glen?

Glen "Glue Gun" Gulutzan.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/n...rs-management/

Timing doesn't really add up though does it?

His role has been increasing all season

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Thanks, those stats are interesting. Would you be able to do the same for Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund and Tkachuk? Would be interesting to see if they perform better with Bennett as their linemate than when Lindholm, Frolik or even Ferland from last season are with them.

Since it's looking back a year and adding it to this I put them in duos

Backlund/Tkachuk have only played 8 minutes with Bennett in that time frame, too small to look at. Numbers are off the charts positive, but the sample size says throw out. No goals for or against together. Backund/Tkachuk are -2 in that time frame with all other linemates

Monahan/Gaudreau have 83 minutes with Bennett in the last year+. CF% is higher with Bennett, SCF% is higher with Bennett, and HD% is slightly less with Bennett. But they didn't score much and were -1 five on five (4-5). Gaudreau and Monahan are +16 with all other linemates.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Bingo

In simple terms it appears he is carrying the play more himself than his most frequent linemates.

I agree that he calls his own number often, I think whether that is selfish or not depends on your bias for or against the player.

But the goal splits are on his side too, so it's not just shot metrics that have him ahead on splits over his linemates.

The numbers above suggest he should be promoted and see what happens; exactly what appears Peters has done.

Also looks like he and Ryan work but he and Jankowski do not.

I dunno. I don't think so.
If you call your own number and put the puck in the net, selfish is good.
If you call your own number and don't produce, selfish is no good.
How it's perceived is based on producing, not bias.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's an interesting thing to look into, probably the best way is to just pick his most frequent linemates and see how they do with and without him.



By time it's three guys ... James Neal, Mark Janowski and Derek Ryan



James Neal 101 minutes



Together

CF% 51%

SCF% 57%

HD% 61%

Goal split 4-5



Neal w/o Bennett

CF% 52%

SCF% 40%

HD% 38%

Goal split 4-6



Bennett w/o Neal

CF% 57%

SCF% 56%

HD% 59%

Goal split 3-2



Answer: Neal hurting Bennett



Mark Jankowski 60 Minutes



Together

CF% 49%

SCF% 52%

HD% 56%

Goal split 0-4



Jankowski w/o Bennett

CF% 53%

SCF% 50%

HD% 38%

Goal split 4-2



Bennett w/o Jankowski

CF% 57%

SCF% 57%

HD% 61%

Goal split 7-3



Answer: Jankowski hurting Bennett



Derek Ryan 62 Minutes



Together

CF% 61%

SCF% 59%

HD% 63%

Goal split 3-1



Ryan w/o Bennett

CF% 50%

SCF% 48%

HD% 43%

Goal split 2-5



Bennett w/o Ryan

CF% 52%

SCF% 55%

HD% 58%

Goal split 4-6



Answer: Ryan hurting Bennett



Great question, and a good answer for what Peters is trying to do. It appears that Bennett is better away from the current lot of third linders that he's been lined up with. Maybe he can help drive the 3M line back to scoring on five on five basis.

If he’s worse with Neal, Ryan and Jankowski he must be better with someone else. Who is that and why isn’t he playing with them more?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by edslunch

If he’s worse with Neal, Ryan and Jankowski he must be better with someone else. Who is that and why isn’t he playing with them more?

Good point. Some guys on the team make everyone better, something that Backlund has historically done. But since we can’t ice a lineup designed to make Bennett better, maybe we should be happy he is helping guys like Ryan and Neal? If he plays more with better players, maybe he makes them worse?

[funnymunk]

Is Bennett slower than he was when he first broke into the league? Or just not moving his feet as much..

[JJFlash]

I found my Sam Bennett comparable. He is a guy that does so much that doesn’t show on the scoreboard, an energy guy that can be moved up and down the line up, he is an integral piece necessary to win a cup, highly underrated because off his low offense, is often snake bitten around the net but every GM would take him….Andrew Cogliano. If we taper our expectations on Sam Bennett to fit this styalistic comparable we can all sleep better.