2011 Canadian Election Thread

[CaptainCrunch]

I think its funny in a way. Harper came out fairly recently and said that abortion and gay marriage were out as issues and he wouldn't redress them. He came out and said that the Death Penalty was in his personal opinion effective in certain cases, then went on to state that he wouldn't reopen the death penalty, but people graviated to the first part of his quote.

Harper is smart enough to know that he has to stick to the center to win votes and elections. The whole social reconstruction argument to me is the last hope for the doomed.

While on a personal level I think that Ignatieff has run an ok campaign, I think his platform is a mess, and I think that the whole evil Conservative speak is actually going to hurt him over the last two weeks of this campaign.

I also think I question that he's bringing out Paul Martin and Jean Chretien to help him campaign, I think its a bit of a sign of weakness or Ignatieffs part.

To be very honest, I was hoping of a better series of debates as I've stated many time with the Harvard debater versus the Conservative brawler.

In the end we got Harper who was the calm rational one in the debate versus angry Ignatieff.

Its been a very weird campaign to watch for me.

I think the Liberal's really screwed up in terms of their NDP like platform.

I think the Liberal's really hit the wrong areas throughout the campaign. For a desparate party, they haven't done enough, and they really have to get moving over the next 2 weeks or they're going to lose seats.

[MarchHare]

As an aside I find it really entertaining to be having a partisan conversation with someone who claims to be 'undecided'!

If Slava is anything like me, he doesn't really have a party to identify with anymore. I'm guessing that he liked the policies of the Paul Martin Liberals but hasn't been very happy with the Dion/Ignatieff-led party. The NDP are too left on fiscal issues, and the CPC are too right on social issues, so no party really feels right for him now.

I know lots of other former Liberal-voters who feel exactly like that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I have no doubt that Harper and the senior CPC strategists agree with you, CaptainCrunch, but many rank-and-file Conservative MPs and candidates are indeed very much far-right social conservatives.

If the Conservative slate had more moderate candidates like former minister Jim Prentice and less like this guy, they would probably have won my vote in this election and the last one.

So we focus on this guy, but the Liberal's have their fair share of nut jobs.

If we're going to pay this candidate homage then we have to look at Liberal Candidate John Reilly in the same light.

If your going to go after Rob Anders (useless) then you have to look at Heidi Fry.

Both parties have people on the edges.

but this guy doesn't doesn't have the stroke or power to do this, and Harper is not going to open up strict constructionalist bills.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

If Slava is anything like me, he doesn't really have a party to identify with anymore. I'm guessing that he liked the policies of the Paul Martin Liberals but hasn't been very happy with the Dion/Ignatieff-led party. The NDP are too left on fiscal issues, and the CPC are too right on social issues, so no party really feels right for him now.

I know lots of other former Liberal-voters who feel exactly like that.

Thats why we need a hooker and blow party with a campaign platform of a hooker in every bedroom and blow in every bowl.

I'd vote for that.

[MarchHare]

Which candidates/former MPs are 'flat earthers'? Start naming names if you're going to throw around baseless claims.

Stockwell Day (not running this time, but he was a long-time minister in Harper's cabinet and former leader of the Alliance Party) is an avowed young Earth creationist who thinks that humans lived alongside dinosaurs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1042814.stm

Gary Goodyear, Harper's Minister of Science, doesn't accept the theory of evolution and thinks it's a religious belief. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...icle320476.ece

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Stockwell Day (not running this time, but he was a long-time minister in Harper's cabinet and former leader of the Alliance Party) is an avowed young Earth creationist who thinks that humans lived alongside dinosaurs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1042814.stm

Gary Goodyear, Harper's Minister of Science, doesn't accept the theory of evolution and thinks it's a religious belief. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...icle320476.ece

What's your point?

I see a party who does not choose to discriminate based upon religious belief, and allows people to contribute to the national good as long as they leave their religious viewpoints at home.

Or did I miss the CPC platform calling for equal rights for dinosaurs?

I never understand the modern Liberal mentality that religous belief is intolerable, when so many of their past leaders were staunch Roman Catholics.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

What's your point?

I see a party who does not choose to discriminate based upon religious belief, and allows people to contribute to the national good as long as they leave their religious viewpoints at home.

Or did I miss the CPC platform calling for equal rights for dinosaurs?

I never understand the modern Liberal mentality that religous belief is intolerable, when so many of their past leaders were staunch Roman Catholics.

Its the enlightened and thus superior Liberal mentality.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

What's your point?

I see a party who does not choose to discriminate based upon religious belief, and allows people to contribute to the national good as long as they leave their religious viewpoints at home.

Or did I miss the CPC platform calling for equal rights for dinosaurs?

I never understand the modern Liberal mentality that religous belief is intolerable, when so many of their past leaders were staunch Roman Catholics.

Dude, I could totally vote for that. For too long the Stegasaurous has been labeled at that stupid horn headed dino with the brain the size of a peanut. That ladies and gentlemen is racism and elitism at its finest. Its wrong, its hurtful, and its beneath us as a society.

Let me ask the question, how many of you have dinosaurs in your employ . . . I bet none of you, because you look at their freakish large size in in the T-Rex's case tiny arms and you instantly think that this stupid beast can't operate a photocopy or use excel.

Your all bigots.

Its time for Dinosaurs to take their place beside men, arm and arm to a bright future.

[MarchHare]

I see a party who does not choose to discriminate based upon religious belief, and allows people to contribute to the national good as long as they leave their religious viewpoints at home.

IF the CPC members were leaving their religious viewpoints at home, then there would be no problem. The issue many people have is that many Conservatives aren't. Look at The Harper Government's recent maternal health initiative, for example, which was clearly influenced by religious pro-life ideology.

And you don't see a problem with having a Minister of Science who doesn't understand that evolution isn't a religious belief? Even staunch Roman Catholics accept evolution as factual.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Slava

While technically I guess the Liberals are still running for government I'm sure that they're aware of the polls that all seem to point to a similar result as we had at dissolution.

I know that this is going to go over well, but frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see some social legislation come forth if the Conservatives have a majority. That might not be the thrust of the election campaign, but that element of the party is still there. We saw some of that with the funding for Africa and the reluctance to fund birth control for example.

I'm not fear mongering, and I don't mean this as the sole reason that people should vote against them (there are many legitimate, well known reasons after-all!), nut I don't doubt that some of the "flat-earthers" will come out of the woodwork with the safety of a majority as well.

We're still on this, huh? This hidden agenda stuff that's going to see abortion made illegal and the death penalty instituted? After working so hard to get a majority, Harper is going to give in to the whims of a few "flat eathers" and basically destroy the CPC. Really?

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Dude, I could totally vote for that. For too long the Stegasaurous has been labeled at that stupid horn headed dino with the brain the size of a peanut. That ladies and gentlemen is racism and elitism at its finest. Its wrong, its hurtful, and its beneath us as a society.

Let me ask the question, how many of you have dinosaurs in your employ . . . I bet none of you, because you look at their freakish large size in in the T-Rex's case tiny arms and you instantly think that this stupid beast can't operate a photocopy or use excel.

Your all bigots.

Its time for Dinosaurs to take their place beside men, arm and arm to a bright future.

I can't speak for everyone, but my concern with the T-Rex and his tiny arms is that he can't wipe his own a$$... who wants to follow him into the stall after that.

If that makes me a bigot, well...

Cue the new Liberal ad saying "Harper against people with the letter T in their names - says they can't wipe their own a$$"...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

IF the CPC members were leaving their religious viewpoints at home, then there would be no problem. The issue many people have is that many Conservatives aren't. Look at The Harper Government's recent maternal health initiative, for example, which was clearly influenced by religious pro-life ideology.

And you don't see a problem with having a Minister of Science who doesn't understand that evolution isn't a religious belief? Even staunch Roman Catholics accept evolution as factual.

how so?

[CaptainCrunch]

Or it could be a great Liberal Attack ad.

"The conservatives believe that dinosaurs walked the earth 500 years ago. The conservatives believe that dinosaurs walk the earth now.

Yet Stephen Harper refuses to grant Dinosaurs equal rights.

How can we give Stephen Harper a majority?

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think the Liberal's really screwed up in terms of their NDP like platform.

This. The Liberals have pretty much abandoned the center with respect to financial matters. Not sure what their strategy is there, as I would think they stand to gain more voters in the middle vs. trying to siphon off support from the NDP.

I would guess they are banking on centrist Liberal voters will hold their noses, hope for the best and continue to vote Liberal. The danger being if they become too disenfranchised, they might just stay home and sit this one out. Will be interesting to see how that strategy plays out.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

This. The Liberals have pretty much abandoned the center with respect to financial matters. Not sure what their strategy is there, as I would think they stand to gain more voters in the middle vs. trying to siphon off support from the NDP.

I would guess they are banking on centrist Liberal voters will hold their noses, hope for the best and continue to vote Liberal. The danger being if they become too disenfranchised, they might just stay home and sit this one out. Will be interesting to see how that strategy plays out.

If I had a guess, the only way that the Senior Liberal's would continue to support Ignatieff is if he let Bob Rae create the platform.

Just looking back on Ignatieff pre Liberal Party leader there's no way he'd be onboard with this platform at all.

I'm sure that this platform was built to be completely opposite of the Cons platform which is fine, but I also think it was designed to siphon votes from the Dippers. The problem is that Layton I think has run a stronger campaign then Ignatieff.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by old-fart

I can't speak for everyone, but my concern with the T-Rex and his tiny arms is that he can't wipe his own a$$... who wants to follow him into the stall after that.

If that makes me a bigot, well...

Cue the new Liberal ad saying "Harper against people with the letter T in their names - says they can't wipe their own a$$"...

Thats why there are bunnies in every dino bathroom.

or dinosaur sized bidets.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I see a party who does not choose to discriminate based upon religious belief, and allows people to contribute to the national good as long as they leave their religious viewpoints at home.

You can't leave stupid at home.

The Science Minister doesn't believe in evolution and is a chiropractor.

It's like having a Transportation Minister who believes airplanes are controlled by angels, and he is qualified for the job because he used to be a bus driver.

[transplant99]

This should add some fuel to the campaign....

The federal government should stop enforcing the rules that govern medicare for five years so that provinces can "experiment" with new ways to finance the system, such as direct patient payments and private insurance, a new report released Monday says.


The report by the Fraser Institute says Canada is experiencing a "medicare bubble" as its spending on health care becomes increasing costly and unaffordable.

"The Canada Health Act forbids many of the successful policies that are commonly used in other developed countries that also have universal access health-care systems," Mark Rovere, co-author of the Fraser Institute report, said in a written statement.

http://www.canada.com/health/Canada+...#ixzz1JuWteaz3

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Which candidates/former MPs are 'flat earthers'? Start naming names if you're going to throw around baseless claims.

As an aside I find it really entertaining to be having a partisan conversation with someone who claims to be 'undecided'!

I can have a debate and still be undecided can't I? Just because I don't like the policies of the Conservatives doesn't mean that I am partisan for another one of the parties?

Originally Posted by MarchHare

If Slava is anything like me, he doesn't really have a party to identify with anymore. I'm guessing that he liked the policies of the Paul Martin Liberals but hasn't been very happy with the Dion/Ignatieff-led party. The NDP are too left on fiscal issues, and the CPC are too right on social issues, so no party really feels right for him now.

I know lots of other former Liberal-voters who feel exactly like that.

I think that is exactly the issue. That and Harper came to power campaigning on an accountability act and cleaning things up....only to see scandal after scandal. Are some of these unjust and media created? Probably, but the list just grows. Frankly I'm not sure that the 2005 Conservative party that came to power with that accountability act would even vote for themselves if they stuck to those principles.

I definitely feel lost in the political wilderness though. Something which more and more seems to be a foreign concept to the CPC supporters here.

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Its the enlightened and thus superior Liberal mentality.

Originally Posted by Ark2

We're still on this, huh? This hidden agenda stuff that's going to see abortion made illegal and the death penalty instituted? After working so hard to get a majority, Harper is going to give in to the whims of a few "flat eathers" and basically destroy the CPC. Really?

Its just an undeniable part of that party. No different to me than the links of the NDP to unions.

Its not like the Canadian Alliance and Progressive Conservatives merged and all of those people decided to suddenly vote for a different party.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

IF the CPC members were leaving their religious viewpoints at home, then there would be no problem. The issue many people have is that many Conservatives aren't. Look at The Harper Government's recent maternal health initiative, for example, which was clearly influenced by religious pro-life ideology.

And you don't see a problem with having a Minister of Science who doesn't understand that evolution isn't a religious belief? Even staunch Roman Catholics accept evolution as factual.

I don't think disqualifying people based upong their personal beliefs is appropriate, as long as they don't let those beliefs interfere in their work.

Jean Chretien was staunchly against same sex marriage for years and his party worked to normalize it over time.

The third world maternal health initiative is really quite a stretch to say it was influenced by far right religious beliefs.

What other beliefs do you think should preclude people from taking public office and who should decide which ones are appropriate?