Canadian Military News

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Canada unable to attend NATO Exercise Air Defender

NATO is currently engaged in its largest-ever air exercise in Germany, an operation aimed at sending a message to the Russians that the alliance is determined to defend every inch of its members’ territory.

In a shocking and embarrassing development, the Department of National Defence said that “while the Royal Canadian Air Force remains ready to deploy NATO-committed assets as required,” it was unable to accept Germany’s invitation for Canadian aircraft to participate because “many of our aircraft and personnel are currently committed to modernization activities such as the Hornet Extension Project … and training new and existing fighter pilots and technicians as part of our ongoing reconstitution efforts.”

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/can...-nato-exercise


I thought at minimum Canada could have provided tankers or C-17's for logistical support.

[undercoverbrother]

Let's have some good news for a change.

Well done Highlanders.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ance-1.6879262

A long missing WW I soldier with ties to Calgary has been found, identified and finally laid to rest in France this month.

Private Harry Atherton was reported missing and presumed dead on Aug. 15, 1917 — the first day of the Battle of Hill 70 near Lens, France.

In June 2017, human skeletal remains were found in France by a munitions clearing group on land destined for construction.

After a lengthy identification process, those remains and other clues like a damaged identification badge were determined to be those of Atherton.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Let's have some good news for a change.

Well done Highlanders.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ance-1.6879262

That's a great story UCB.

Two other soldiers were buried by their units (British Columbia Regiment in both cases) in the same ceremony. A moving story all around.


https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...in-france.html

[speede5]

Chinook crash early this morning.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/2-rcaf-mem...wawa-1.6448065

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

That's a great story UCB.

Two other soldiers were buried by their units (British Columbia Regiment in both cases) in the same ceremony. A moving story all around.


https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...in-france.html

Yes I saw that, the Highlander story is close to me heart.

The work that is being done by this group is wonderful

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...-military.html

[CaptainCrunch]

I am super confused. The PM comes out with his statement, stating that the two members that are missing are dead.



The armed forces wouldn't confirm that and say that the search and rescue is ongoing.



Does our government actually communicate with each other anymore?

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1671246121077710850

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

https://twitter.com/user/status/1671246121077710850

Jesus ####ing Christ

If there is one time to be sure about your facts it is when you are dealing with people's lives.

[CaptainCrunch]

Interesting article on Canada's NATO relationship especially with Canada opting out of the NATO large scale air readiness exercise.


https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/sm...ds-weve-become

While we were unable to accept Germany’s invitation for Canadian aircraft to participate in Exercise AIR DEFENDER 2023, the Royal Canadian Air Force has been a strong contributor to NATO operations for decades, and that continues to be the case,” said Daniel Le Bouthellier, spokesperson for the Department of National Defence.
Just how much of a flight-of-fancy is DND’s assertion that Canada remains a “strong contributor to NATO” when, knowing the vital role that air power plays in modern war, we absent ourselves from such a high-profile NATO exercise? Just how much longer can we afford to delude ourselves into thinking that we will still somehow matter in the important game of war when we can’t even show up for practice?

There should be no doubt in NATO’s collective mind that Canada is regressing beyond the status of defence laggard. Our military might attempt self-exculpatory platitudes such as the all-too-common insistence that we are “working with our allies.” Yet our non-participation at such a high-profile preparatory NATO exercise sends the clear political message that Canada’s air force is lapsing into de facto operational irrelevance. One where any possible projection as an independent operational force might be seen as an embarrassment for ourselves, and for the modern, better-armed and high tech air forces of NATO and allied countries such as Norway, Sweden and the Czech Republic which took part in Airdefender23.


Yet our Department of National Defence remains perennially optimistic. Included in the reasons provided by De Bouthillier for our non-participation was that the Canadian Armed Forces is passing through a period of transition focusing on training and “broader ongoing reconstitution efforts,” including the acquisition of equipment such as the F-35. The same “reconstitution,” one can assume, that smaller NATO allies are encountering now as they acquire new hardware, including the F-35 fighter jet, at a faster, more committed pace than Canada. Or perhaps involving the ground-based air missile defence systems (here, Canada has zero capability) that smaller NATO countries such as Finland, Estonia and Latvia are acquiring as part of their “reconstitution.”

Yet, frankly, my biggest concern, as we continue to regress into NATO spectator-cheerleader status, is that there does not seem to be that much concern among parliamentarians and the public. Myself and a few other media contributors aside, Canada’s rapidly diminishing posture, expectation and capability is being met with a seemingly overwhelming sense of serene public acceptance and resignation. Less-to-nothing is becoming the new normal for Canadian defence.


Which would make perfect sense if we Canadians were true pacifists by nature. But we are not! Instead, our explicit non-action and commitment to active, national defence shows us more as defence freeloaders and outsourcers. It’s possible that Justin Trudeau (like most of his predecessors) is reading the Canadian public’s mind correctly by assuming that it may be a better political option for his government to continue to huddle under Canada’s dangerously delusional assumption of unlimited protection and liability on the part of the U.S military over all of Canada

[CaptainCrunch]

Really starting to wonder if I'm wrong in terms of the Canadian Forces readiness, and its worse then I believe.

We just sent two lightly armed Kingston Class Coastal defense boats for the NATO Baltic sea operation.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...tic-mission-2/

This is a blue water mission, something that these vessels are not made for. They have no real offensive capability, carrying a couple of machine guns and a limited mine detecting capability. These are mainly used for Reserve training missions.

We had to skip the NATO air exercise, because our air fleet is basically up on bricks. Supposedly all of our 12 Halifax frigates are active right now, with Montreal and Fredericton on deployment missions.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Really starting to wonder if I'm wrong in terms of the Canadian Forces readiness, and its worse then I believe.

We just sent two lightly armed Kingston Class Coastal defense boats for the NATO Baltic sea operation.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...tic-mission-2/

This is a blue water mission, something that these vessels are not made for. They have no real offensive capability, carrying a couple of machine guns and a limited mine detecting capability. These are mainly used for Reserve training missions.

We had to skip the NATO air exercise, because our air fleet is basically up on bricks. Supposedly all of our 12 Halifax frigates are active right now, with Montreal and Fredericton on deployment missions.

It just seems like Canada has accepted that we're an American protectorate and decided that since that's the case we should spend money on things other than the military.

[Zulu29]

Well we basically are a US protectorate. The military will rust away to nothing but a small defence force. We’ll likely have to accept more US military presence on Canadian soil. Canadians will scream bloody murder about being sovereign, not wanting a foreign military in our country etc. Then it will dawn on the public that their opposition to defence spending is what led to their current situation. It’s inevitable at this point. Might as well just raise the white flag now and cancel all these multi billion dollar purchases (which thanks to hyper inflation will result in us getting less ships and planes than originally ordered) and ask Uncle Sam to staff our shipyards and airbases. We will still need army bases for the defence force of course!

[Monahammer]

Why not just form a union with the US at that point. Might as well get the benefits of statehood in the most powerful nation of earth rather than just being giant puerto rico.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Why not just form a union with the US at that point. Might as well get the benefits of statehood in the most powerful nation of earth rather than just being giant puerto rico.

You’re not wrong

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Why not just form a union with the US at that point. Might as well get the benefits of statehood in the most powerful nation of earth rather than just being giant puerto rico.

Gross. Anything that takes us further down the path of the Americanization of Canada is not a positive. There is more to the life than "the economy".

[Monahammer]

It's my position that the US will just come and take us when water gets tight anyways. If we're not in any position to offer any defense, might as well get on the good side of the fence before that eventuality comes to pass. American bases on canadian soil would make this essentially a fate accompli. Thus, my statement that we might as well become states at that point.

I agree that I would like there to be enduring separation between Canada and the US. But we need to start showing signs of life. The americans know that we're beholden to them and aren't afraid to use that to their advantage. If we were in the tent, they wouldn't be able to leverage us the same way. It's about more than just economy. Quality of life. Check out the article today from the Globe on the decreasing productivity numbers in Canada- we are ####ed.

[JohnnyB]

I can understand why being in the tent is preferable for Canada in those circumstances, but why would America want Canada in the tent? If the US could essentially do with Canada what it pleases without giving Canadians representation, why would they do so?

[CaptainCrunch]

Canada is eroding its position in NATO and in Norad.

Our seat at the table is going to get smaller.

And yeah, at some point, the Americans are going to take a more senior/junior position in terms of North American defense and arctic rights.

Even if we eventually get the F-35's, America will want to put partner squadrons to help Canada out at air force bases.

Or as our Navy erodes, do more patrolling assistance in our waters.

We've been relatively lucky with Presidents for a long time that they haven't pushed more on our commitment to our defense. Even with Trump, though he blustered, I don't think he tried to push things on defense like he probably wanted to. But even Biden has rumbled about the NATO 2% requirement.


Even Canada's special Forces is talking about how they're not properly equipt and the 8 billion year old Griffin helicopters are way to obsolete and are a deterrent to their abilities.



We don't have a deployable airforce.



We don't have an effective fighting Landforce, and they don't have things like air defense, and it was a scramble of cannibalizing tanks to get a few tanks to the Ukraine.



We sent two unsuitable vessels on a NATO mission.



We are in such a bad spot in recruiting that we've had to open up our recruiting for non citizens.



There need to be serious discussions around the readiness of the Forces, and how interested we are in our own defense and our ability to live up to our NATO and Norad obligations.



We used to want to have the ability to do at least two major deployments for natural disasters at the same time. I think that two deployments would cripple the Forces.



If and its a big if, the balloon went off in Latvia our troops there would be ill equip to survive in a modern battlefield.

[CaptainCrunch]

Just looking at some headlines, it looks like recruiting in the Forces is down 35% over last year.

That's pretty grim, the turnover of people leaving versus new people coming on board is widening, as well numbers like this are concerning in terms of training and readiness.

We can buy shiny new F-35's but the delay has meant that experienced fighter pilots are leaving for the private sector. We can build new ships but we're having trouble staffing existing platforms. I doubt people that are serious about a career in the Forces remain that way after they have to wait up to 2 years to go though the process and see headlines about equipment shortages etc.

I know the government is focused on Immigrants and LGTBQ+ recruitment streams. But I have my doubts that this is really going after the right demographic.

I guess I look at the messaging here. How do you successfully recruit for the Forces? Careers that matter, maybe promote the adventure, the higher calling. Look at not just pay and housing, focus on the career positivity. Oh yeah and pretend you give a crap by recruiting for a properly outfitted and equipped military, that'd be cool.


I've talked to colleagues about themselves or their friends that have left the forces recently either because they just wanted to retire after long hauls, or for example their kids. Mainly the point that comes back is that the Armed Forces isn't serious about being an armed force. Sadly I talked to one friend who served and his kid wanted to serve and my friend actively discouraged him from joining.



I think that things are worse then the government is letting on.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Just looking at some headlines, it looks like recruiting in the Forces is down 35% over last year.

That's pretty grim, the turnover of people leaving versus new people coming on board is widening, as well numbers like this are concerning in terms of training and readiness.

We can buy shiny new F-35's but the delay has meant that experienced fighter pilots are leaving for the private sector. We can build new ships but we're having trouble staffing existing platforms. I doubt people that are serious about a career in the Forces remain that way after they have to wait up to 2 years to go though the process and see headlines about equipment shortages etc.

I know the government is focused on Immigrants and LGTBQ+ recruitment streams. But I have my doubts that this is really going after the right demographic.

I guess I look at the messaging here. How do you successfully recruit for the Forces? Careers that matter, maybe promote the adventure, the higher calling. Look at not just pay and housing, focus on the career positivity. Oh yeah and pretend you give a crap by recruiting for a properly outfitted and equipped military, that'd be cool.


I've talked to colleagues about themselves or their friends that have left the forces recently either because they just wanted to retire after long hauls, or for example their kids. Mainly the point that comes back is that the Armed Forces isn't serious about being an armed force. Sadly I talked to one friend who served and his kid wanted to serve and my friend actively discouraged him from joining.



I think that things are worse then the government is letting on.

Do the annual budgets allocate less and less per year on military spending? You paint a dire picture.

If defense spending is roughly the same YOY, but the Forces are worse off every year, where is the money going?