the chain of command isn't clear to me here. at dinner Shaw rejected Picard's course change request outright, calling him retired admiral, in the sense that he no longer has official powers. but then on the bridge Picard is able to overrule Shaw and they just go with it because they want to hear his ancient voice croak "Engage!" one last time.
if Picard was able to take over the ship officially at any time, why did they have to wait until Shaw's nappy nap to head to the nebula and steal a shuttle? he could have just been like "official Starfleet business, you're on a need to know basis son", but instead they meekly go to their bunk beds and pout.
In a real world scenario. The Captain of a ship or boat or a sub or even a more then one man plan outranks all, unless an Admiral specifically comes aboard to take command, or to raise his flag.
Frankly for example if a Admiral comes on board of a ship commanded by a lieutenant for example without orders to take command as a ship or as part of a task force. The Lt. can tell the Admiral to kiss his shiny metal a22 so to speak if the Admiral tries to order him to do something against his standing orders.
Of course at some point afterwards the Admiral will likely crush that LT. career for fun.
So Shaw was right in refusing Picards order though he didn't ask the right question.
When Picard started throwing his weight around Shaw would be in his right mind in telling Picard that he hadn't officially declared his command, and he would also be right to ask for verification of a change of command.
Since Picard didn't have that, and there was no order of command assumption, Shaw in his legal right could literally charge Picard for all kinds of things when he woke up to the course change.
Seven of Nine was literally guilty of mutiny in this case. She was also guilty of trying to incite a mutiny and the crew members that changed course though unknowing would be charged with following an illegal command.
Now I know that Star Fleet likely dosen't have a death penalty, but Shaw would have the right to put her over for a court marshal, and swung her from the Anti-Matter conduits. Those crew members that obeyed her command would have likely seen their career ended.
Now in terms of Picard taking command, not in any universe. He's retired and has no command authority and he can't just reactivate him commission. The only people that could do that are a billion miles away, and they aren't going to do that after looking at the fact that Picard at this point seems to have mental issues and is emotionally compromised.
When Picard tried to take command Shaw would have been in his rights to have Picard and Riker removed from the Bridge and escorted to the Brig. Basically that whole string of orders represents illegal orders. And Shaw by allowing this to happen has ended his career as well.
Adding on, Shaw was right, his first obligation is to the safety of his ship and his crew of 500 people. Picard is clearly emotionally compromised and acting out of character by all points by being willing to sacrifice a crew of 500 people for 1 person who has a legitimate arrest order.
While Shaw says that Starfleet doesn't negotiate with Bounty Hunters, what he didn't say is that Bounty Hunters are somehow illegal. Her bounty probably makes the arrest of Jack to be completely legal as Shaw has zero evidence that the Bounty Hunter is going to harm Jack. That was Picard weaving a narrative.
Shaw at times acted correctly and had the right reasoning, but if anything was too timid or not forceful enough in enforcing his command authority.
He didn't establish communications or have an ability to contact starfleet before he rushed in to get his hero cookie.
What every Admiral in Starfleet right up the chain would say is "The bounty hunter had a valid bounty and arrest order", you have a multi-billion dollar ship and a crew of 500 people to protect. Picard stole Federation properly, was clearly emotionally compromised or maybe demented but not in a right state of mind, Riker was acting in bad faith and your XO literally mutinied. Turn the criminal over, put Picard Riker and Seven in the Bridge and return to Star Fleet Command at best speed. We're going to launch an investigation into your Command Captain, and initiate at the very least an Admiral's mast to deal with Picard and Riker. And a General Court marshal for your XO"
Then roll the credits.
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Discovery…I’m stuck. 5 seasons in and I have limited knowledge about the actual crew. Peanut hamper has more of a back story!
I’m willing to stick Picard out to the end. Star Trek is friends solving problems including morality plays.
Neo-constitution class. Is that starfleet code for we did a complete upgrade on the entire ship and forgot to add new shields and weapons, and removed the old ones? Why not just call it a freighter then? Honestly, Kirk and Janeway had no problems firing at will. Picard tried to use diplomacy but he was aware that the enterprise would win most battles. Now we have the school bus Titan that used to be super bad ass and now the weakness is used as a plot device? It’s the opposite of deus ex machina. With the appropriate armaments and shields, this story would have already moved forward.
And riker. He was captain of the old titan but people have more loyalty to Picard?
I get the lower decks reference for the bunk beds, but in all seriousness it’s so disrespectful and even cringey considering that riker and Picard could have been just travelling to “federation days”. Even jellico wasn’t a Richard cranium like that.
About 30 pages back, someone posted Star Trek tropes. One was “stealing a Starship”. I’m still confused why Picard and riker have saved the universe many times over including Picard season 1 and 2 and no one will help them. You would think that someone in starfleet would say…well, they always seem to be doing good things and saving all known life many times, maybe we should listen to them and support them. Surely for all of the “medical supplies” or “emergency diplomacy” that the enterprise had to do, that they could get a ride in a better ship than stealing a virtual freighter.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing where it goes!
And I’m a Star Trek fan!!
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Last edited by McG; 02-27-2023 at 05:05 PM.
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She's obviously toying with them like a cat. She wanted to play with her prey, hence the cackle of joy when they decided to run. I know you don't like the Khan-photocopy type character being the main villain but:
Spoiler!
she's not the big baddie of the show according to those who have seen the whole series
Spoiler!
Of course not, thats Lore. Not really a 'Spoiler' per se, just a pure guess but if we're harvesting all the 'memberberries' it stands to reason.
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This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Discovery…I’m stuck. 5 seasons in and I have limited knowledge about the actual crew. Peanut hamper has more of a back story!
I’m willing to stick Picard out to the end. Star Trek is friends solving problems including morality plays.
Neo-constitution class. Is that starfleet code for we did a complete upgrade on the entire ship and forgot to add new shields and weapons, and removed the old ones? Why not just call it a freighter then? Honestly, Kirk and Janeway had no problems firing at will. Picard tried to use diplomacy but he was aware that the enterprise would win most battles. Now we have the school bus Titan that used to be super bad ass and now the weakness is used as a plot device? It’s the opposite of deus ex machina. With the appropriate armaments and shields, this story would have already moved forward.
And riker. He was captain of the old titan but people have more loyalty to Picard?
I get the lower decks reference for the bunk beds, but in all seriousness it’s so disrespectful and even cringey considering that riker and Picard could have been just travelling to “federation days”. Even jellico wasn’t a Richard cranium like that.
About 30 pages back, someone posted Star Trek tropes. One was “stealing a Starship”. I’m still confused why Picard and riker have saved the universe many times over including Picard season 1 and 2 and no one will help them. You would think that someone in starfleet would say…well, they always seem to be doing good things and saving all known life many times, maybe we should listen to them and support them. Surely for all of the “medical supplies” or “emergency diplomacy” that the enterprise had to do, that they could get a ride in a better ship than stealing a virtual freighter.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing where it goes!
And I’m a Star Trek fan!!
We all are. This is all just part of it.
If anything, we live in a time of Cosmic Balance.
Discovery is hot awful, but its garbage is off-set by Lower Decks, which is brilliant.
Picard is stoking the 'remember this' part of our fandoms in a ham-fisted manner but this is offset by the glory that is Strange New Worlds.
Remember when Discovery was the only Trek on TV? *Shudder*
This is just the nature of fandom for this Franchise, the loathing is like sweet dessert.
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If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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Finished Strange New Worlds. I have huge nostalgia for TOS and the last episode just fed that need perfectly. Extremely well done, I had chills a couple of times and the Spock actor has really grown on me. I still have a bias against prequels but this works. We need more episodic TV in general.
I gave up on Lower Decks after about 12 episodes and won't be going back. Just couldn't get into it at all.
Finished Strange New Worlds. I have huge nostalgia for TOS and the last episode just fed that need perfectly. Extremely well done, I had chills a couple of times and the Spock actor has really grown on me. I still have a bias against prequels but this works. We need more episodic TV in general.
I gave up on Lower Decks after about 12 episodes and won't be going back. Just couldn't get into it at all.
I love Lower Decks so you're clearly just a philistine, but STN is the best Trek we've gotten in ages.
Picard, E3...tonight...will this series continue to tear us apart? We shall see.
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This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
I really think they should have aired this more similar to a traditional mini series like Angels in America or the nuBSG backdoor pilot. It's so clearly as aspirations to be the TUC of TNG and I think the episode breaks do it a disservice form what it's trying to do.
Or even do the Mindhunter thing where the episode length can vary based on how long it should ideally be.
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Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Prodigy was so much better than I was expecting. It makes me almost wish I had kids to show it to.
That show was so damn dark. We essentially see a second Wolf 359. Certainly with white washing of it but the entire fleet of Star Fleet just getting absolutely long term decimated. It's so bizarre that it was in a kids show.
That show was so damn dark. We essentially see a second Wolf 359. Certainly with white washing of it but the entire fleet of Star Fleet just getting absolutely long term decimated. It's so bizarre that it was in a kids show.
... as someone who hasn't watched Prodigy, please explain!
... as someone who hasn't watched Prodigy, please explain!
Watch it, you mook!
Spoiler!
The cole's notes is a living computer virus thing that transmits when they open hailing frequencies with the initial ship takes over of a fleet of Star Fleet ships. Once taken over they send out a distress beacon summoning more star fleet ships which then also get infected. While infected they all start attacking one another indiscriminately.
There's no visible "death" but they're not shooting laser pointers at each other and the accumulating debris you see every time they swap scenes implies it is pretty gnarly
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The cole's notes is a living computer virus thing that transmits when they open hailing frequencies with the initial ship takes over of a fleet of Star Fleet ships. Once taken over they send out a distress beacon summoning more star fleet ships which then also get infected. While infected they all start attacking one another indiscriminately.
There's no visible "death" but they're not shooting laser pointers at each other and the accumulating debris you see every time they swap scenes implies it is pretty gnarly
Ugh...but Janeway tho...I thought we were done with her.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
