[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The problem with winters in Calgary isn't necessarily the weather in December, January, February. It's the weather in October, November, March, April, May. As those months are much, much colder than other major centers in North America and make for long winters relative to winters in Eastern Canada and Northern USA.

Plus, don't discount how depressing it is during the winter months when it gets dark by 4:30pm. If you're from a more temperate climate and where daylight is more regular, I'm not sure you'd be used to that. And this would be doubly so for player families, where they probably spend the winter months here, and then off season they're somewhere else. So they really just always experience the crappy winter months of Calgary without the nicer summer months when we get tons and tons of daylight.

[Bingo]

Yeah I don't think it's hard to make the case that's it's not easy attracting your pick of players, coaches or GMs to the market.

With coaches and GMs there are only 32 jobs ... you're going to get someone. But if there are multiple openings I would guess you wait until the other ones are filled if you're the Flames.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by butterfly

NHL city, sure. For anywhere, it's Medicine Hat.

Above the layer of diesel exhaust.

[SaskyFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Plus, don't discount how depressing it is during the winter months when it gets dark by 4:30pm. If you're from a more temperate climate and where daylight is more regular, I'm not sure you'd be used to that. And this would be doubly so for player families, where they probably spend the winter months here, and then off season they're somewhere else. So they really just always experience the crappy winter months of Calgary without the nicer summer months when we get tons and tons of daylight.

The difference in sunsets isn't that much different between Calgary and Tampa. On Feb 1st the sunset in Tampa was 6:10, in Calgary it was 5:27. The difference is in Tampa it is probably still +20 and Calgary it is -20.

But the amount of daylight hours isn't a huge difference.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

The difference in sunsets isn't that much different between Calgary and Tampa. On Feb 1st the sunset in Tampa was 6:10, in Calgary it was 5:27. The difference is in Tampa it is probably still +20 and Calgary it is -20.

But the amount of daylight hours isn't a huge difference.

Yes and also the sunrise in Tampa is 7:10 AM and in Calgary it's 8:13 AM so that's two extra hours of sun per day which is 8% of the day or 16% of the hours you're most likely to be awake.

When you look at December 22, it's closer to 25% or a quarter of the hours you're most likely to be awake.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The taxes in Canada will always be a bit of a deterrent too. The consequrnce of a cap was younger free agency..so now teams like the Flames have 26 to 28 year olds who can chose to play elsewhere. Around the league more and more of these players are ending up in the same few cities. Getting to be like the NBA where 15 teams are pretty much just filling out the league and the same 10 are always good and a few move in and out of the playoffs.

I see the game going this direction as well.
Superstar players are going to start taking more control over where they play and showing less loyalty, like they do in the NBA. Hockey still has a little but if loyalty code to it, but that's changing.
Small market teams will have to win with drafted talent before they take off for bigger markets. We need a Giannis.

[tripin_billie]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think it's fair to say Calgary would have a winter perception, a small market perception and the perception that players won't choose to come here over other options if money is relatively equal.

Maybe some of these tv productions with guys on talk shows talking up our restaurants will help.

Read once that airport connectivity was a big issue for families as well (not saying Calgary is worse than others in Western Canada), but an issue vs most (all?) US cities.

The airport connectivity seems to be getting better though. For the first time ever (as far as I'm aware of) there are direct flights from YYC to IAD (Washington Dulles). Adding more and more American cities as direct flights should help this. The Dulles flight is 4.5 hours down from what used to take minimum 8 hours with a layover in YYZ.

I feel like the airport connectivity of Calgary matches or bests quite a few American NHL cities. I mean, it's not beating the north east and mid Atlantic, but once you get into the interior, it is easily as good as or better than: Columbus, Pittsburg, Buffalo, Nashville (maybe), St. Louis, and San Jose (unless you drive a little to San Fran).

[powderjunkie]

Let's crowd source this so we can actually contextualize it a bit. Feel free to critique as I haven't spend time in most of these cities, but I'm a bit of a geography/weather buff. Obviously a lot boils down to personal preferences:

Spoiler!

Consistently very good with very rare extremes:
LAK
ANA
NAS
CAR
DAL
SJ


Mostly amazing with occasional extremes:

ARI
VGK
TBL
FLA


As my toddler likes to say: "Not too so bad":

STL
WAS
PHI
NYR/NJD/NYI
COL
maybe PIT/CBJ?


Similar overall, but different kinds of suck:
VAN
SEA
CGY
MIN
CHI
DET
TOR
BUF
OTT
MTL
BOS


The worst:

EDM
WPG

So there are about 10 teams with good-great weather, and 2 that are pretty terrible.

The other 20 vary wildly, but overall the differences probably aren't super significant. That said, Calgary is certainly in the bottom half, but there are things to dislike about the weather in a lot of the cities.

[timun]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

The difference in sunsets isn't that much different between Calgary and Tampa. On Feb 1st the sunset in Tampa was 6:10, in Calgary it was 5:27. The difference is in Tampa it is probably still +20 and Calgary it is -20.

But the amount of daylight hours isn't a huge difference.

There's a huge difference in the amount of daylight hours in winter between Tampa (about 28° N) and Calgary (about 51° N). Tampa has about 10 hours, 22 minutes of daylight on the winter solstice; Calgary has less than that every single day from late October to late February, and bottoms out at about 7 hours, 54 minutes on the solstice.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

We get sucked into the 'is Calgary a good city to be in' discussion on a cyclical basis.

There's no one answer because people have different preferences. Having visited often, I wouldn't ever want to live in Florida but Tkachuk seemed excited about it. New York seems a giant hassle. What's exciting about New Jersey? I've been to Dallas many times and I guess it's ok if you like living on a hot, absolutely flat mass of land. For Washington, DC you end up living in isolated distant suburbs. Chicago and Minneapolis/St Paul are cold. Seattle's rain is not really the big deal, rather its the months of cloud cover that gets to people. What's the difference between Denver and Calgary? I guess Raleigh, NC is ok if you're really really into the whole Duke/NC college scenes?

Best 'antidote' to all these things is to have a solid team that's run the right way. Draft well, manage the assets well, and maybe don't worry about free agent signings since our track record says we shouldn't really be doing much of that!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

We get sucked into the 'is Calgary a good city to be in' discussion on a cyclical basis.

There's no one answer because people have different preferences. Having visited often, I wouldn't ever want to live in Florida but Tkachuk seemed excited about it. New York seems a giant hassle. What's exciting about New Jersey? I've been to Dallas many times and I guess it's ok if you like living on a hot, absolutely flat mass of land. For Washington, DC you end up living in isolated distant suburbs. Chicago and Minneapolis/St Paul are cold. Seattle's rain is not really the big deal, rather its the months of cloud cover that gets to people. What's the difference between Denver and Calgary? I guess Raleigh, NC is ok if you're really really into the whole Duke/NC college scenes?

Best 'antidote' to all these things is to have a solid team that's run the right way. Draft well, manage the assets well, and maybe don't worry about free agent signings since our track record says we shouldn't really be doing much of that!

NYC a hassle? Not if you have lots of money and can afford a deluxe apartment in the sky.

Most place become quire bearable if you have loads money.

Calgary. I love Calgary and have loved it since I moved here from the east years ago. But NYC and LA etc. were not options for me.

If I had a profession which allowed me to live where ever I wanted, I expect that Calgary would not have been on my quick list.

[tripin_billie]

Beyond just weather, there is the proximity realities of the Mid-Atlantic. I can hop on an Amtrak from Union Station in DC and be in Baltimore in 40 minutes, Philly in 2 hours, and NYC in 3.5 hours - all downtown to downtown. And if I buy a ticket early, I can do that for about $50 each way to NYC.

If I hop in my car, I can be to beaches all down the coast in as little as 2 hours to Delaware and MD and 4 hours to Virginia Beach. I can get into the Poconos and Adirondacks for skiing (admittedly lacking) in about the same time. I can drive to a bunch of major US cities within 6 hours.

Then, most of the Mid-Atlantic cities are serviced by multiple international airports, many of which are hubs (all down the coast).

I guess what I'm saying is that the geography of the east coast can be a huge selling point.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by tripin_billie

Beyond just weather, there is the proximity realities of the Mid-Atlantic. I can hop on an Amtrak from Union Station in DC and be in Baltimore in 40 minutes, Philly in 2 hours, and NYC in 3.5 hours - all downtown to downtown. And if I buy a ticket early, I can do that for about $50 each way to NYC.

If I hop in my car, I can be to beaches all down the coast in as little as 2 hours to Delaware and MD and 4 hours to Virginia Beach. I can get into the Poconos and Adirondacks for skiing (admittedly lacking) in about the same time. I can drive to a bunch of major US cities within 6 hours.

Then, most of the Mid-Atlantic cities are serviced by multiple international airports, many of which are hubs (all down the coast).

I guess what I'm saying is that the geography of the east coast can be a huge selling point.

Exactly. I have a friend who lives in New Jersey and is both an hour drive from NYC and Philly. It sorta blows my small Prairie Canadian mind to think about. Not to mention how cheap you can file in the US domestically.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by tripin_billie

Beyond just weather, there is the proximity realities of the Mid-Atlantic. I can hop on an Amtrak from Union Station in DC and be in Baltimore in 40 minutes, Philly in 2 hours, and NYC in 3.5 hours - all downtown to downtown. And if I buy a ticket early, I can do that for about $50 each way to NYC.

If I hop in my car, I can be to beaches all down the coast in as little as 2 hours to Delaware and MD and 4 hours to Virginia Beach. I can get into the Poconos and Adirondacks for skiing (admittedly lacking) in about the same time. I can drive to a bunch of major US cities within 6 hours.

Then, most of the Mid-Atlantic cities are serviced by multiple international airports, many of which are hubs (all down the coast).

I guess what I'm saying is that the geography of the east coast can be a huge selling point.

Yes, there are all sorts of possibilities wherever you live. But the practical reality is that you wouldn't do these things every weekend. Day-to-day life is a lot more restricted and centers around your immediate community.

And I say this partly tongue-in-cheek: selling a 2 hour drive to Delaware as an attraction is underscoring my point that people will always find things of interest and comfort in their surroundings... it's personal, not universal.

[Strange Brew]

It's why cities like Buffalo and KC can't be competitive in the NFL.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's why cities like Buffalo and KC can't be competitive in the NFL.

It's why Green Bay has been a terrible team for years now.

[8sPOT]

As a Canadian, I prefer living in Canada. While not applicable to all, I bet a decent number of Canadian NHL players would prefer Canada, maybe? I’d be exploiting that, along with certain Euro players from the colder countries.

[Toonage]

Haven't read through all of this but is anyone bringing up how Winters suggested players like Tyler Bertuzzi would prefer to be in Canada or a spot like Minnesota because they love activities like ice fishing, etc?

There are good players out there that will want to play in Calgary.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Haven't read through all of this but is anyone bringing up how Winters suggested players like Tyler Bertuzzi would prefer to be in Canada or a spot like Minnesota because they love activities like ice fishing, etc?

There are good players out there that will want to play in Calgary.

Part of this depends on players being honest in their draft interviews.

Rightly or wrongly, taxes are a huge issue.

[FlamesAddiction]

The climate thing is a an issue, but I think it gets blown out of proportion a little. Players can choose to live where ever they want for several months of the year, and for the time they playing, they are on the road for almost half that time anyway. I am sure it is one consideration players have, but probably not the main consideration.

The "cool factor" is probably a bigger thing. A new arena would help a little, but there are other things that come into play. Edmonton managed this by building a new arena, and of course by obtaining a generational talent. We can hate them all we want, but there is no denying that having McDavid and Draisaitl attracts players and gives the Oilers a spotlight that creates gravity.

The Flames could also take a page from Detroit's book. Detroit became an attractive market not because the city itself was desirable, but because the club built an identity and positive reputation. The Illitch family in particular knows how to treat players and their families.