[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[Enoch Root]

"In summary: Diffuse is both a verb and an adjective, and refers to the spreading of something, or making it less concentrated. Defuse functions only as a verb and means "to remove the fuse from something."

Tension can be either diffused and defused

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

These guys riffuse to use spellcheck.

also, it was spelt correctly

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

"In summary: Diffuse is both a verb and an adjective, and refers to the spreading of something, or making it less concentrated. Defuse functions only as a verb and means "to remove the fuse from something."

Tension can be either diffused and defused

Well, the last thing we want is to spread the situation out, so in this case ‘defuse’ would be the better word.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Well, the last thing we want is to spread the situation out, so in this case ‘defuse’ would be the better word.

Just accept that you were wrong.

The most common metaphor for tension is that it is lingering in the air, like a gas. In that case diffuse is by far the better word.

It is certainly also common to discuss tension like a potential bomb, and in that case defuse would in fact be better.

But seeing as how I was the original author here, my choice kind of rules the day

[btimbit]

I've been critical and frustrated with Bennett, but for the record, nothing would make me happier than him getting his game together, wanting to stay, and evolving into a proper middle 6 player rather than the bottom 6er he's played like.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Getting your players going is good for the team, and part of the coach's job

You can’t gift a player 10 games on the top line. That’s what the 2nd winger on the top line is now? A 10 game stint to get their game going?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You can’t gift a player 10 games on the top line. That’s what the 2nd winger on the top line is now? A 10 game stint to get their game going?

You realize they did that with Lindholm when they put him at Center last year. They talked about putting him at C and he said he wanted either 8 or 10 games to settle in, I forget which

They also without necessarily publicizing anything, rode through a 10-12 game pointless streak of Mangiapane’s with Backlund and Tkachuk

Players don’t like the blender and coaches do place them with consistent linemates to allow chemistry or comfort to develop

It’s really not a big deal

[Coach]

I like Bennett. I think we should keep him. I do think he has an extra mode buried somewhere and it's worth hanging onto him to see if it can be awakened. I'm not sure his trade value is enough to bring back anything thats not a longer shot than he is.

He still has time. Not long, but some.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I 100% agree with Enoch. Just give Bennett the rope.


He has a history of making really high-skill plays. Sure, they haven't come as often as we would like, but he does have those hands. He is physical. He is one of the few players on this team that consistently elevates his game in the playoffs. He just has zero confidence now.


Who is he competing against? Dube and Mangiapane. Ok, well there are 3 lines. It looks right now like Dube and Mangiapane have found homes on the 2nd and 3rd line.


Simon, Leivo and Nordstrom?



I haven't minded Simon as much as others have on the top line - I think he is an effective forechecker, decent along the boards, and he is decent defensively. However, he does not provide what Hudler, Ferland or Lindholm has on that line - a different look for a scoring threat, nor can he make strong passes. He just doesn't have much of an offensive ability.


Leivo is interesting, and is looking like he is improving, but to date, he hasn't done much. He isn't very physical either.


Nordstrom - well, he doesn't have an offensive bone in his body. Great PK'er, but you don't want him on any of the top 3 lines. Hard working guy who has taken some flack lately (those 2 bad penalties vs Edmonton didn't help!), but I don't mind him and I think he has shown him to be a good 4th liner with PK ability, but that's it.


I really believe that this team is in desperate need of a physical top 6 player. Every single season you see Bennett making some seriously talented plays - some of them work out, some of them don't - but the talent is there. The physicality is there. He is great on face-offs - that's great when Monahan gets waved. He is great along the boards - a definite weakness on that line. He is a quick skater - again, helpful for that line. He seems like the best support player for that line at the moment while Ward wants Lindholm to be a centre.


I would rather give Bennett that rope and see what comes out of it, rather than trading him for pennies right now anyway. That's the best solution to this situation - give him the opportunity to regain some of his confidence, and see how he fits on that line. I remember a really spectacular give-and-go with him and Gaudreau last season I believe. He knew to trail Gaudreau and go to the net right away with his stick on the ice for his goal last night, whereas Simon and Nordstrom would have rushed to the boards for puck support. Little things like that.


Hey, if it doesn't work out, what the heck is it costing the Flames? Valuable minutes of Simon on the top line? Leivo's 'getting used to NHL speed' minutes? More Nordstrom chasing the puck everywhere but not being able to pass it to anyone? Seriously, what is the alternative and the argument against Bennett on the top line at the moment (or in the top 9 if Mangiapane and/or Dube don't stick on their existing lines, which in the short sample size seemingly are looking like fits)?

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm all for giving Bennett more time with Monahan and Gaudreau to see if chemistry develops. It it does, he will add some grit to that soft line.

He buried it when it counted. I don't care if he doesn't score a lot if he can bring his clutch play from the post season into the regular season. I have been as hard on him as anyone, but he pulled through last night.

Honestly, I don't think he brings back much in a trade considering his alleged trade request, publicized poor performance, and shortened COVID season. It might be best to work with him and see how it pans out after more games. The best case scenario of him turning it around outweighs the worst case scenario of trading him for what would likely be next to nothing.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ward has a chance to make things better here - and as the coach, that is part of his job. He should tell Bennett "you've got 10 games on the top line, so just relax and play. Keep it simple, stay out of the box, and just play. And then we'll see where we are at."

That would diffuse things and give Bennett something to build on.

Can we be sure this hasn’t happened? Why would anyone assume something like this hasn’t happened?

Maybe not that exact quote, no coach is likely to guarantee top line ice time for x number of games.

[TheSquatch]

He buried it when it counted which was nice, but his total lack of awareness caused the Puulujarvi goal too - Bennett bounces the puck off the goalie and skates past, meanwhile Edmonton has the puck and is exiting the zone. Then he skates at mid-pace to the bench. Even Johnny, who was just as deep, got back on that one.

So there's still big aspects of his game that are missing, and I suspect that's what the team sees.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You realize they did that with Lindholm when they put him at Center last year. They talked about putting him at C and he said he wanted either 8 or 10 games to settle in, I forget which

They also without necessarily publicizing anything, rode through a 10-12 game pointless streak of Mangiapane’s with Backlund and Tkachuk

Players don’t like the blender and coaches do place them with consistent linemates to allow chemistry or comfort to develop

It’s really not a big deal

I see a gigantic difference between Lindholm and Bennett.

Remember the point made was that Bennett should be gifted 10 games to diffuse/defuse the situation.

If the coach wants to give someone 10 games on the top line or at a particular position then they should. Since he hasn’t done it to date, I’d assume the coach doesn’t see it as a good idea.

If you want to argue that 10 games of Bennett on the top line suddenly makes the team better, then sure. Or that the coach should stop blending lines, sure.

Personally I don’t see what Bennett has done to earn anything more than what he has received. Although the healthy scratch and the coaches public comments about giving Bennett what he wants were unnecessary IMO.

[Camronius]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I see a gigantic difference between Lindholm and Bennett.

Remember the point made was that Bennett should be gifted 10 games to diffuse/defuse the situation.

If the coach wants to give someone 10 games on the top line or at a particular position then they should. Since he hasn’t done it to date, I’d assume the coach doesn’t see it as a good idea.

If you want to argue that 10 games of Bennett on the top line suddenly makes the team better, then sure. Or that the coach should stop blending lines, sure.

Personally I don’t see what Bennett has done to earn anything more than what he has received. Although the healthy scratch and the coaches public comments about giving Bennett what he wants were unnecessary IMO.

Just adding some perspective. For me it’s not about gifting or rewarding Bennett. It’s finding the right setup across the board. Last game the lines were by far the best and most balanced I’ve seen in recent Flames history. Bennett is a better option for top line vs. the other options I’ve seen thus far. None of the new guys have impressed me, and last game Bennett really simplified his game. If he plays the same way he did last game, you continue to give him games. The more games he plays without being a complete sideshow the more rope he gets. Then go from there I guess. Nobody should be gifted minutes.

It would really send the wrong message if Bennett wasn’t given the exact same opportunity next game. If he’s shuffled back down the lineup, thats sending a bad message to the players. Keep the lines, set the tone for a good first period and demand better defensive play imo.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

He buried it when it counted which was nice, but his total lack of awareness caused the Puulujarvi goal too

"total lack of awareness" will be Bennett's epitaph.

Lots of tools, no toolbox. At 2.5 mln and a QO @2.75, you move on.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I see a gigantic difference between Lindholm and Bennett.

Remember the point made was that Bennett should be gifted 10 games to diffuse/defuse the situation.

If the coach wants to give someone 10 games on the top line or at a particular position then they should. Since he hasn’t done it to date, I’d assume the coach doesn’t see it as a good idea.

If you want to argue that 10 games of Bennett on the top line suddenly makes the team better, then sure. Or that the coach should stop blending lines, sure.

Personally I don’t see what Bennett has done to earn anything more than what he has received. Although the healthy scratch and the coaches public comments about giving Bennett what he wants were unnecessary IMO.

I notice you prefer to talk about Lindholm and ignore the Mang situation. He did nothing for a solid 10 games to earn anything, but they had patience and gave him stability with good linemates. So the idea of earning what you receive is not really something applied uniformly.

Also whatever you think the coach thinks, you do realize that coaches prioritize ideas. Lindholm playing with 13 and 23 is a good idea because it adds a high skilled, defensively responsible guy to the line. Not happening because having him at C, also a good idea, has been prioritized

Then again, we have a coach that does things I don’t think are good ideas.
Clearly the coach prioritized looking at Simon and Leivo on that line. These guys are <$1 M castoffs. Good idea? I dunno.
Plunking Rittich in to the playoff game - good idea? Nah.

So as for what Ward thinks is a good idea, well... not sure what that has to do with what an actual good idea is

But yeah, I am quite aware that some people don’t have any interest in listening to the same argument many people have made for years, so there is really no point in anyone going through the whole exercise, pulling out the line combo data yet again, restating the reasoning and whole case.

One guy thinks the coach should give him a long look. You don’t.

Fine. Whatever

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by BigRed

"total lack of awareness" will be Bennett's epitaph.

Lots of tools, no toolbox. At 2.5 mln and a QO @2.75, you move on.

Confidence and happiness can change corsi numbers very quickly, It may not happen in this case but Sam has proved he has another gear in him.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I notice you prefer to talk about Lindholm and ignore the Mang situation. He did nothing for a solid 10 games to earn anything, but they had patience and gave him stability with good linemates.

Not true. Mangiapane has always had terrific situational awareness. He's good with the puck and without. Before he got "his chance," he was demonstrating that awareness on the 4th line. He knows where to be and when cycles well and know how to keep the play alive. When he's not being effective with the puck, he can grind it out and be useful without it.

In other words, Mangiapane has always had some kind of positive effect on his line even if it's not always on the scoresheet. He earned it.

Sam's different. It's not from lack of effort. It's lack of ability. Plays die on his stick. He tries to drive the net and turns it over. He doesn't make good decisions with the puck, and doesn't seem to know where to go without the puck. He digs around in the corner with no clear plan of what to do if he gets it. He can be a bull in a china shop with some hits, but he's just as random as any bull.

They're not remotely comparable players. Mangiapane passed Sam by a while ago and never looked back.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

He buried it when it counted which was nice, but his total lack of awareness caused the Puulujarvi goal too - Bennett bounces the puck off the goalie and skates past, meanwhile Edmonton has the puck and is exiting the zone. Then he skates at mid-pace to the bench. Even Johnny, who was just as deep, got back on that one.

So there's still big aspects of his game that are missing, and I suspect that's what the team sees.

This is ridiculous to me.

Both Lindholm and Tanev misplayed Poolparty as he came in. Bennett got a chance on goal in the offensive zone, and two defenceman and the centre were back in position defensively for the Flames. Bennett’s “total lack of awareness” did not cause that goal against at all.

If we’re worried about things playing out like that, then players shouldn’t go more than two strides over centre. Just cross centre, dump it in, and boom! 5 guys back all the time.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Not true. Mangiapane has always had terrific situational awareness. He's good with the puck and without. Before he got "his chance," he was demonstrating that awareness on the 4th line. He knows where to be and when cycles well and know how to keep the play alive. When he's not being effective with the puck, he can grind it out and be useful without it.

In other words, Mangiapane has always had some kind of positive effect on his line even if it's not always on the scoresheet. He earned it.

Sam's different. It's not from lack of effort. It's lack of ability. Plays die on his stick. He tries to drive the net and turns it over. He doesn't make good decisions with the puck, and doesn't seem to know where to go without the puck. He digs around in the corner with no clear plan of what to do if he gets it. He can be a bull in a china shop with some hits, but he's just as random as any bull.

They're not remotely comparable players. Mangiapane passed Sam by a while ago and never looked back.

Agree, and I mentioned in another thread that Mangiapane magically elevates whoever he plays with - Last night Looch.