Star Trek General Discussion

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, well, you could essentially invalidate all of Trek with a simple "but the Kazon tho..."

And the Paklids.

And do we know why The Scimitar Shrike was just sitting around in space for what seemed like days?

Picard could have gotten there faster if he'd booked a trip on Expedia.

The thought was that this nebula they're in / around interferes with scanning equipment, Beverly gave Picard very precise coordinates to find them and when they arrive Jack is pissed because Picard and Riker gave away their position. It sort of works.

I'll let this show at least try to explain things with Vadic and the Shrike before I write it off as entirely dumb but given how the last two seasons went I don't have a lot of confidence.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

The thought was that this nebula they're in / around interferes with scanning equipment, Beverly gave Picard very precise coordinates to find them and when they arrive Jack is pissed because Picard and Riker gave away their position. It sort of works.

I'll let this show at least try to explain things with Vadic and the Shrike before I write it off as entirely dumb but given how the last two seasons went I don't have a lot of confidence.

Ditto, I actually didnt mind Episode 1, but episode 2 really felt like it was clumsily stumbling over its own feet.

[CaptainCrunch]

The episode was ok for me. I like Amanda Plummer who's Dad was one of the great Trek Villains.

But she came across as a little too much mustache twirling strapping people to railroad tracks type of villains. I think its safe to assume that she's not the primary villain here.

I did cringe when they did the description of the ships weapons. It was an exact rift of Shinzon's ship.

I will say that the Captain was completely correct in this. Picard and Riker were completely out of line in my humble opinion. Even with Seven, He would be right to throw her out the airlock.

Why can't a star fleet vessel have 10,000 torpedoes, 400 phaser banks, 700 throw ships across the galaxy beams. You'd think after running into these overpowered ships for the last several hundred years that they'd be like

"We need to arm this bastard up, and improve the dorsal shields that keep failing."

[Shazam]

I like how everyone knows about Section 31 now.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I like how everyone knows about Section 31 now.

I caught that too. So much for the hyper secretive federation tal-shiar. The federation has just given up on trying to pretend it's totally un sinister.

Spoiler!

Also, Worf would never work for an organization with so little honor.

[Monahammer]

I also agree, Captain Shaw felt obtusely dickish in episode 1, but in episode 2 seemed like the only star fleet officer (current or former) with a functioning brain present on the ship.
Yet, he still apparently elected to fly into the nebula without at least sending one subspace message back to starfleet? No leaving a buoy outside the nebula to alert anyone of the hyper dangerous thing he didn't even want to do in the first place?

It's still the same level of #### tier desperate housewives plot writing. Characters making uncharacteristic mistakes because they're convenient to advance dumb plot points.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I also agree, Captain Shaw felt obtusely dickish in episode 1, but in episode 2 seemed like the only star fleet officer (current or former) with a functioning brain present on the ship.
Yet, he still apparently elected to fly into the nebula without at least sending one subspace message back to starfleet? No leaving a buoy outside the nebula to alert anyone of the hyper dangerous thing he didn't even want to do in the first place?

It's still the same level of #### tier desperate housewives plot writing. Characters making uncharacteristic mistakes because they're convenient to advance dumb plot points.

I can understand his dickishness though. I mean honestly he has these two legends that suddenly appeared on his ship with short notice, and I'm sure he knows their connection to Seven.

Two guys who played loose and fast with the regulations, and they just turn up. Then at Dinner they try to make him break his orders. Good for him for being a dick frankly.

But yeah, the whole not sending a message before he jumps into a janky nebula to put his crew at risk outside of federation space two rescue two guys who stole federation property and are notorious rogues.

Bad command decision.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I can understand his dickishness though. I mean honestly he has these two legends that suddenly appeared on his ship with short notice, and I'm sure he knows their connection to Seven.

Two guys who played loose and fast with the regulations, and they just turn up. Then at Dinner they try to make him break his orders. Good for him for being a dick frankly.

But yeah, the whole not sending a message before he jumps into a janky nebula to put his crew at risk outside of federation space two rescue two guys who stole federation property and are notorious rogues.

Bad command decision.

Star Trek always forgets to leave behind a comms buoy or even families when they are ready to head into battle. DS9 was just ruined for me when I wondered why the Saratoga brought all their civilians to Wolf 359 instead of putting them into the lifeboats first.

I fully expect that we'll find out Shaw was at Wolf 359 and that's why he hates "former Borg Picard" and refuses to let 7 use her Borg name.

[pseudoreality]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Spoiler!

Anyone else think it is weird that Beverly would name her son with Picard. after her late husband? Was always under the impression that one of the major reasons they were reluctant to hook up was that Picard was her dead husband's best friend.

Not only that, but

Spoiler!

Picard ordered Jack Crusher to his death.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Star Trek always forgets to leave behind a comms buoy or even families when they are ready to head into battle. DS9 was just ruined for me when I wondered why the Saratoga brought all their civilians to Wolf 359 instead of putting them into the lifeboats first.

I fully expect that we'll find out Shaw was at Wolf 359 and that's why he hates "former Borg Picard" and refuses to let 7 use her Borg name.

Thats such a cop out because essentially all of Starfleet was at Wolf 359.

Even still tho...didnt Picard go into an alternate dimension of Terran Fascists and prevent the fascism timeline from existing and now the Borg are Starfleet's friends? And Jurati is the Borg Queen now.

I think its called 'Picard: Season 2.'

I believe that was after Picard was turned into a robot.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I can understand his dickishness though. I mean honestly he has these two legends that suddenly appeared on his ship with short notice, and I'm sure he knows their connection to Seven.

Two guys who played loose and fast with the regulations, and they just turn up. Then at Dinner they try to make him break his orders. Good for him for being a dick frankly.

But yeah, the whole not sending a message before he jumps into a janky nebula to put his crew at risk outside of federation space two rescue two guys who stole federation property and are notorious rogues.

Bad command decision.

the chain of command isn't clear to me here. at dinner Shaw rejected Picard's course change request outright, calling him retired admiral, in the sense that he no longer has official powers. but then on the bridge Picard is able to overrule Shaw and they just go with it because they want to hear his ancient voice croak "Engage!" one last time.

if Picard was able to take over the ship officially at any time, why did they have to wait until Shaw's nappy nap to head to the nebula and steal a shuttle? he could have just been like "official Starfleet business, you're on a need to know basis son", but instead they meekly go to their bunk beds and pout.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats such a cop out because essentially all of Starfleet was at Wolf 359.

Even still tho...didnt Picard go into an alternate dimension of Terran Fascists and prevent the fascism timeline from existing and now the Borg are Starfleet's friends? And Jurati is the Borg Queen now.

I think its called 'Picard: Season 2.'

I believe that was after Picard was turned into a robot.

Lmao

I feel like Jurati’s Borg are allegedly a splinter faction or their are two borgs or something

[Wormius]

Shaw seems a little young for Wolf 359. Anyway, wouldn’t he have been dead if he was and didn’t retreat?

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Lmao

I feel like Jurati’s Borg are allegedly a splinter faction or their are two borgs or something

My wife was asking about where Jurati and the borg are during all of this, and all I could do was feebly croak out "just forget about them..."

What a disaster lol.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

the chain of command isn't clear to me here. at dinner Shaw rejected Picard's course change request outright, calling him retired admiral, in the sense that he no longer has official powers. but then on the bridge Picard is able to overrule Shaw and they just go with it because they want to hear his ancient voice croak "Engage!" one last time.

if Picard was able to take over the ship officially at any time, why did they have to wait until Shaw's nappy nap to head to the nebula and steal a shuttle? he could have just been like "official Starfleet business, you're on a need to know basis son", but instead they meekly go to their bunk beds and pout.

Not only did that whole chain of command part not make sense (you're absolutely right!) but the entire plan they had also made no sense. Vadic had just told them that if they moved at all, she would shoot them with unknown weapon. This threat formed the basis for 50% of the episode's tension. Yet, their plan was fire torpedoes at the greatly more powerful ship and run? Why didn't Vadic just blow them up like she said she would? If she's unwilling to do that, then why didn't they run towards the federation at least, instead of deeper into the nebula?

It's all non sense.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

My wife was asking about where Jurati and the borg are during all of this, and all I could do was feebly croak out "just forget about them..."

What a disaster lol.

They're like stopping the magic galaxy level threat that Akiva added in and resolved in the final minutes of S2. This show is so hacky. Which if they were self aware about it could be fun, but they think they're high art.

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Not only did that whole chain of command part not make sense (you're absolutely right!) but the entire plan they had also made no sense. Vadic had just told them that if they moved at all, she would shoot them with unknown weapon. This threat formed the basis for 50% of the episode's tension. Yet, their plan was fire torpedoes at the greatly more powerful ship and run? Why didn't Vadic just blow them up like she said she would? If she's unwilling to do that, then why didn't they run towards the federation at least, instead of deeper into the nebula?

It's all non sense.

I'm pretty sure Picard is still technically retired, so even though he has the title/rank of Admiral and the badge, he really doesn't hold rank. Shaw and Riker, iirc, have the same Rank. But the show isn't concerned about this, so why should I be

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

My wife was asking about where Jurati and the borg are during all of this, and all I could do was feebly croak out "just forget about them..."

What a disaster lol.

Right, and I also thought they were hoping we'd forget about Picard being a robot too so I have no idea why SheShinzon even mentioned it, but theres that mozza ball out of the bag now too.

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Not only did that whole chain of command part not make sense (you're absolutely right!) but the entire plan they had also made no sense. Vadic had just told them that if they moved at all, she would shoot them with unknown weapon. This threat formed the basis for 50% of the episode's tension. Yet, their plan was fire torpedoes at the greatly more powerful ship and run? Why didn't Vadic just blow them up like she said she would? If she's unwilling to do that, then why didn't they run towards the federation at least, instead of deeper into the nebula?

It's all non sense.

Yeah..."I'm going to blow you up! But I wont! Now I'll chase you!! Wheeee!!!!"

And why did the Scimitar Shrike just sit there. In space. Staring at the helpless ship with Crusher on it?

Presumably waiting for Picard to show up?

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Not only did that whole chain of command part not make sense (you're absolutely right!) but the entire plan they had also made no sense. Vadic had just told them that if they moved at all, she would shoot them with unknown weapon. This threat formed the basis for 50% of the episode's tension. Yet, their plan was fire torpedoes at the greatly more powerful ship and run? Why didn't Vadic just blow them up like she said she would? If she's unwilling to do that, then why didn't they run towards the federation at least, instead of deeper into the nebula?

It's all non sense.

Eh, in that scenario their only play was to call her bluff. They know she was there to capture Crusher alive, if she wanted to kill him she would've just done it. Fleeing towards Federation space would just make them an easy target to be disabled by a superior ship and then have Crusher taken by force.

If they aren't handing Crusher over outright, the only logical choice was to bet she wouldn't destroy the ship and flee into the nebula to try and gain some type of tactical advantage and/or buy themselves more time.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Shaw seems a little young for Wolf 359. Anyway, wouldn’t he have been dead if he was and didn’t retreat?

He could have been a junior or recruit. There were lots of survivors - Sisko for example.

I've heard people say that Shaw is basically grown-up Boimler from lower decks.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Not only did that whole chain of command part not make sense (you're absolutely right!) but the entire plan they had also made no sense. Vadic had just told them that if they moved at all, she would shoot them with unknown weapon. This threat formed the basis for 50% of the episode's tension. Yet, their plan was fire torpedoes at the greatly more powerful ship and run? Why didn't Vadic just blow them up like she said she would? If she's unwilling to do that, then why didn't they run towards the federation at least, instead of deeper into the nebula?

It's all non sense.

She's obviously toying with them like a cat. She wanted to play with her prey, hence the cackle of joy when they decided to run. I know you don't like the Khan-photocopy type character being the main villain but:

Spoiler!

she's not the big baddie of the show according to those who have seen the whole series