[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Especially coming from someone who's been pumping "9 points in 34 RS games" + 25 points in 39 AHL games" Teuvo Teravainen

"the jury is still out on him and I am we don't know which is the 'real' TT is..."

Funny how you use TT regular season and AHL numbers against him failing to mention his 9pts in 14 playoff games. Then when it comes to Jankowski you don't mention his regular season and only choose to mention his tournament. And before you try and say I'm praising TT and slamming Jankowski no I'm not. It's just funny to me how you try to portray things so that they fit your agenda.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It was the exact same way with Sven. People made every excuse in the book with him and if you disagreed in the slightest the fan club comes at you.

And there's the victim card. Yeah poor you.
Here's the thing - MOST prospects don't make it. So it is far easier to predict someone is going to fail then succeed in the NHL.
Yet it seems like for some posters it is far more important to be right than it is for a Flames prospect they are down on to prove them wrong.
Example - when confronted with a piece of evidence about Janko making the all-star team, you actually spent the time to go find a list so you could say how unimpressive it is.

If you want to be right then yes - just predict prospects to fail and most of the time you will be. Great.

I'll even give you the next guy you can start predicting doom for: Morgan Klimchuk.

Have at it - and chances are he won't be an impact NHLer either. Fun.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by kehatch

It's still a discussion. And discussing the pick is much more relevant then the ad nauseam posts telling people to stop discussing the pick.

Jankowski has the ability to shut the discussion down. Unfortunately he has failed to do that thus far. I am not suggesting he is a bust, but he hasn't shown the level of progress (especially offensively) that you would hope. Which fuels the fire and makes questioning the pick even more relevant.

Except this was bumped because he did make progress this year, had a good season and helped his team win the Frozen four.

So when the topic immediately shifts back to the tired, played out droning on of the same group of people, it's legitimately nauseating.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And there's the victim card. Yeah poor you.
Here's the thing - MOST prospects don't make it. So it is far easier to predict someone is going to fail then succeed in the NHL.
Yet it seems like for some posters it is far more important to be right than it is for a Flames prospect they are down on to prove them wrong.
Example - when confronted with a piece of evidence about Janko making the all-star team, you actually spent the time to go find a list so you could say how unimpressive it is.

If you want to be right then yes - just predict prospects to fail and most of the time you will be. Great.

I'll even give you the next guy you can start predicting doom for: Morgan Klimchuk.

Have at it - and chances are he won't be an impact NHLer either. Fun.

It's not about saying how unimpressive it is. It's about being realistic about what it means. It's putting it in context. And it was about a 5 second google search.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It was the exact same way with Sven. People made every excuse in the book with him and if you disagreed in the slightest the fan club comes at you.

Besides getting a pat on the back from oldschoolcalgary what does this post have to do with anything? It doesn't address any of the recent posts in anyway.

You've brought nothing to this debate, nothing.

[JiriHrdina]

And as you were doing that search you were REALLY hoping it was a bad list right? Because you'd rather be right then be wrong even if was better for the Flames.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Hackey

It's not about saying how unimpressive it is. It's about being realistic about what it means. It's putting it in context. And it was about a 5 second google search.

Once again you fail to grasp any sense of the conversation. No one suggested that being named Tournament All Star meant sure fire NHL player, no one. Your inability to follow along and bring honest points is mind boggling.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Except this was bumped because he did make progress this year, had a good season and helped his team win the Frozen four.

So when the topic immediately shifts back to the tired, played out droning on of the same group of people, it's legitimately nauseating.

The frozen four was like 2 months ago wasn't it?

[GoJetsGo]

The last couple posts have hit the nail right on the head.

The handful of people who are so irate with Feaster and or this particular draft pick from three years ago are now so entrenched in their opinions after the many hours of their own time they've wasted repeating themselves over and over that - whether they want to admit it to us or themselves - they're legitimately hoping for a Flames prospect to fail so they can feel self-righteous about all the time they've wasted trying to "educate" others.

Beyond sad.

[kehatch]

I honestly would love to like the prospect. He has a great skill set that would look wonderful down the middle for the Flames. He has shown flashes of potential in development camp and in the frozen four. But history tells us a much more objective and accurate story then fan snippets from a couple of televised games.

Feaster told us this guy was a long term project and a lot of us are holding on to that thought. I am trying to find an example of a college forward prospect that saw similar development to Jankowski offensively and went on to have a strong NHL career.

I had to exclude the following guys from the search. They either produced at at (or greater then) a PPG in college AND/OR they saw a significant increase in their offensive numbers year to year (usually both):

• Morrison, Umberger, JVR, Cammalleri, Umberger, Kunitz, Pavelski, Cole, Stafford, Kessel, St Louis, Gaudreau, Gionta, Heatly, Stastny, Parise, Kobasew, Stempniak, Moulson. Eaves, Vanek, Zajac, Glencross, Stafford, Raymond, Cogliano, Abdelkader, Boll, Oshie, Okoposo, Yip, Booth, Turris, Riley Nash, Benn, Pacioretty, Stepan, Atkinson, Kreider, Shore, Smith, Kevin Hayes

The following guys looked like promising comparisons, but they went pro within two or less seasons of being drafted:

• Sharp, Kesler, Jackman

The only guys I was able to find that showed similar offense in their first three seasons of college and ended up in the NHL were:

• Eric Nystrom, Adam Burish, Jimmy Hayes

In close to 50 prospects evaluated only 3 produced at Jankowski's rate and made the NHL. None of them are offensive producers in the NHL. All three are bottom six physical grit guys (a role that Jankowski doesn't fit). Does anyone have other examples that I missed?

Unless we really feel that Jankowski is breaking new ground the odds aren't in his favor of being an NHL player. Certainly not Nieuwendyk or Thornton.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Once again you fail to grasp any sense of the conversation. No one suggested that being named Tournament All Star meant sure fire NHL player, no one. Your inability to follow along and bring honest points is mind boggling.

What more do you want? I said it was a good job by him. It was nice to see. It is progression. But at the same time its very slow progression and making the all star team doesn't really mean a whole lot. That's just telling it like it is. Putting the whole thing in proper context. Your the ones who are taking it so offensively. Like it's some vendetta against Jankowski when it's not.

[Husky]

I think many people truly forget how young he is, he's a 1994 birth. When you compare him to player born 1994 or later in college he's in the top of the group for points.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hackey

http://www.eliteprospects.com/awards...rnament%20Team

Good for him for making it. It's better than not making it. It's progression. Based on that list I'm not jumping for joy either though.

That's a fair point as it would be for any non-pro league. So let's filter it out and look at the guys who, since 1990, like Jankowski were

1)20YO or younger at the time (since the list is littered with fully grown men who were, 23+):

2)Drafted by an NHL team (i.e. players who showed before NCAA play that they had NHL upside)

3)Listed 5'11 or taller

Mark Jankowski (20)
Jack Eichel (18)
Anthony Florentino (20)
Shayne Gostisbehere (20)
Brian Dumoulin (20)
Jon Merrill (18)
Brian Rolston (20)
Paul Kariya (19, actually under 5'11)
Brian Rolston (19)

That's what I ended up, going down the list. Looks like pretty select company over a 25 year period. 8 players in 15 years. 7 if you cut Kariya out to stick with the filter. But not sure why anyone would cut Paul frickin Kariya out of such a list.

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

big difference though: he's putting up points in the NHL against men, not the NCAA vs kids.

A big portion NCAA players are 21, 22, 23, 24 who played at least a year of USHL or Junior A as a 19 year old and might even have redshirted their 20-year old freshman season. The "kids" are the outliers. Go through most rosters in the Hockey East and that should be clear.

not too shabby for a kid three days younger than Janko

And 6 inches shorter and 35lbs lighter.

Originally Posted by Hackey

Funny how you use TT regular season and AHL numbers against him failing to mention his 9pts in 14 playoff games. Then when it comes to Jankowski you don't mention his regular season and only choose to mention his tournament. And before you try and say I'm praising TT and slamming Jankowski no I'm not. It's just funny to me how you try to portray things so that they fit your agenda.

That's because I'm not the one pointing to Jankowski's regular season as a reason he's not a good prospect. I'm not the one pulling the double standard to "fit" my agenda. I'm simply the person saying I don't put much stock into Jankowski's stats, or Teravainen's stats, and I'd rather watch the players play to evaluate them. And credit to TT for his PP snipe the other night - awesome goal. Unlike his overstated game 1, he was a lot more noticible in game 2 despite putting up worse stats.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Hackey

http://www.eliteprospects.com/awards...rnament%20Team

Good for him for making it. It's better than not making it. It's progression. Based on that list I'm not jumping for joy either though.

So based on using this list to prove your point I can assume that you aren't impressed that Eichel is on it either?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Hackey

What more do you want? I said it was a good job by him. It was nice to see. It is progression. But at the same time its very slow progression and making the all star team doesn't really mean a whole lot. That's just telling it like it is. Putting the whole thing in proper context. Your the ones who are taking it so offensively. Like it's some vendetta against Jankowski when it's not.

Is the progression really that slow though? When he was drafted he was expected to be in the USHL for a year then spend 4 years in the NCAA. Yet just 3 seasons later he is an all-star in the NCAA Championship tournament. I'm sorry but this is enormous progression from a kid where there were doubts that he could even compete at the NCAA level as an 18 year old because of the huge jump in level of play.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Husky

I think many people truly forget how young he is, he's a 1994 birth. When you compare him to player born 1994 or later in college he's in the top of the group for points.

This is honestly a good point. This is one of the major reasons I will give him some benefit of the doubt. He still does have time but his development to me needs to turn up a notch or two. So far his progression points more towards a player who is going to fizzle out than it points to a player who is going to make a significant impact.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Husky

I think many people truly forget how young he is, he's a 1994 birth. When you compare him to player born 1994 or later in college he's in the top of the group for points.

Nah, much easier to call him a bust and tell everyone "I told you so" in a few years.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Is the progression really that slow though? When he was drafted he was expected to be in the USHL for a year then spend 4 years in the NCAA. Yet just 3 seasons later he is an all-star in the NCAA Championship tournament. I'm sorry but this is enormous progression from a kid where there were doubts that he could even compete at the NCAA level as an 18 year old because of the huge jump in level of play.

I see his development as like the minimum you would hope for. If it was less you'd probably label him a bust. If it was more you'd probably be pretty excited.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Is the progression really that slow though? When he was drafted he was expected to be in the USHL for a year then spend 4 years in the NCAA. Yet just 3 seasons later he is an all-star in the NCAA Championship tournament. I'm sorry but this is enormous progression from a kid where there were doubts that he could even compete at the NCAA level as an 18 year old because of the huge jump in level of play.

How many times have we seen great performances in the WJC by players that never make it? You can't cherry pick good or bad chunks of a players season and use it to make a case.

That said, his frozen four performance was certainly a "remember me" statement by a prospect that was on the verge of being forgotten. Partly due to his results, and partly due to the growth in the Flames prospect pool.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And as you were doing that search you were REALLY hoping it was a bad list right? Because you'd rather be right then be wrong even if was better for the Flames.

Kind of just common knowledge. We've all seen the Hobey Baker list. We all have a general idea of the best players to come out of the NCAA. So no I didn't search the list hoping for anything, I already knew what would be on there. A lot of names most people haven't heard of.