The Ongoing Dog Attack Mega-Thread

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

No, it's "don't do something that doesn't make sense just for the sake of doing something."



Any large breed dog that is unhealthy, not properly trained, cared for, or supervised can do the same. Whereas as healthy, well-trained and supervised pitbull can be very safe.

Haven't heard of too many golden retriever attacks that kill or maim little old ladies. Meanwhile pitbulls are involved in 67% of attacks.

https://www.knrlegal.com/dog-breeds-...y-bite-humans/

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Guns and dogs are a pretty poor comparison. Dogs kill 1-2 people a year in Canada from a quick google.

I’m not sure how scale matters in terms of the argument.

We accept X deaths a year because we believe that people should get to have Y.
We cry about personal responsibility when Y kills something even though these events are entirely predictable.

These deaths are entirely predictable given the policies we have.

Would you prefer car accidents? I’m fine saying that the benefits from from current automobiles in general is worth the number of fatalities. We need to stop talking about these deaths as tragedies or accidents. They are natural consequences of policies we choose to have. A dispassionate discussion of are these costs worth should happen.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by GGG

So the answer is ban large dogs or as a society we accept people occasionally die.

There isn’t a only responsible owners will own large dogs option.

I don’t think it’s fair to say ‘large’ dogs. In terms of size, pit bulls, Rottweilers and German Shepard’s are nearer medium sized. Newfies, Bernese, Pyrenees, Mastiffs, Irish Hounds, Danes etc are big, big animals that I haven’t ever heard of maulings, let alone fatalities.

Strong, high energy, protective dogs are suspect. And the people who think they can ‘rescue’ them are the ammunition. What in the world makes someone think that they can overcome nature?

If a dog isn’t properly socialized by 6 months, it never will be. If there’s a pit that needs rescuing, it’s probably best off either out down or entrusted to someone who will never, ever have that dog around vulnerable people. These people are ignorant with a good heart, but dangerous to the nth degree.

Worse, if you go out of your way to get a dog like this; what does it say about your antisocial tendencies? Your dog is not your friend first and foremost; you are it’s master and gave very obligation to make that dog a victim of our society. Don’t like it? Don’t get a dog. It’s not a popularity contest among mutts.

Multiple dogs, according to the 1990-2007 Canadian review, is even worse. Take a softie owner with two trait aggressive dogs who is a bad start and put them in a residential neighbourhood. That needs to stop; I don’t think banning a breed is going to do it though.

[monkeyman]

If I can't own a Pitbull, how will people know how tough and edgy I am?

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

But if you tell them you have pit bulls your life insurance premiums go up because they'll automatically assume you're a smoker, too.

This really cracked me up. There is certainly a demographic overlap.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Guns and dogs are a pretty poor comparison. Dogs kill 1-2 people a year in Canada from a quick google.

I should be able to own and breed cougars because they kill less humans than dogs.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by chedder

Haven't heard of too many golden retriever attacks that kill or maim little old ladies. Meanwhile pitbulls are involved in 67% of attacks.

https://www.knrlegal.com/dog-breeds-...y-bite-humans/

And a lot of people miss identify dog breeds, that number is greatly inflated.

Boxers, bull dogs, mastiffs and others are sometimes lumped into the pitbull breeds which isn’t accurate and why it is inflated.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I don’t think it’s fair to say ‘large’ dogs. In terms of size, pit bulls, Rottweilers and German Shepard’s are nearer medium sized. Newfies, Bernese, Pyrenees, Mastiffs, Irish Hounds, Danes etc are big, big animals that I haven’t ever heard of maulings, let alone fatalities.

Strong, high energy, protective dogs are suspect. And the people who think they can ‘rescue’ them are the ammunition. What in the world makes someone think that they can overcome nature?

If a dog isn’t properly socialized by 6 months, it never will be. If there’s a pit that needs rescuing, it’s probably best off either out down or entrusted to someone who will never, ever have that dog around vulnerable people. These people are ignorant with a good heart, but dangerous to the nth degree.

Worse, if you go out of your way to get a dog like this; what does it say about your antisocial tendencies? Your dog is not your friend first and foremost; you are it’s master and gave very obligation to make that dog a victim of our society. Don’t like it? Don’t get a dog. It’s not a popularity contest among mutts.

Multiple dogs, according to the 1990-2007 Canadian review, is even worse. Take a softie owner with two trait aggressive dogs who is a bad start and put them in a residential neighbourhood. That needs to stop; I don’t think banning a breed is going to do it though.

This just isn’t true, there are plenty of news stories about other breeds mauling people to death in the world. Literally 1-2 deaths annually in Canada from dog attacks and not all of them are pitbull breeds.

Dogs can be rehabbed, dogs who had a bad start to life can learn these things and I know that because I’ve seen it with my own eyes, I’ve seen dogs do a totally 180 when given a good home and proper care, even the numerous pitbull mixes we have fostered and honestly the scariest one we fostered was a mastiff, who was over 200lbs, he was so reactive to other dogs and my 250lbs 6’ 5” husband could barely contain him. He came around and was adopted to the right people who had experience with large breeds.

There are so many pitbull mixes that come in, owning this breed/bully type dogs is trendy and unfortunately has lead to a lot of irresponsible owners. Bully type breeds are demanding, they have a lot of energy and if you can release that with training, exercise and socializing then you can have a happy and healthy dog who isn’t dangerous and these dogs don’t just flip a switch to turn into a vicious killer.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

This just isn’t true, there are plenty of news stories about other breeds mauling people to death in the world. Literally 1-2 deaths annually in Canada from dog attacks and not all of them are pitbull breeds.

Dogs can be rehabbed, dogs who had a bad start to life can learn these things and I know that because I’ve seen it with my own eyes, I’ve seen dogs do a totally 180 when given a good home and proper care, even the numerous pitbull mixes we have fostered and honestly the scariest one we fostered was a mastiff, who was over 200lbs, he was so reactive to other dogs and my 250lbs 6’ 5” husband could barely contain him. He came around and was adopted to the right people who had experience with large breeds.

There are so many pitbull mixes that come in, owning this breed/bully type dogs is trendy and unfortunately has lead to a lot of irresponsible owners. Bully type breeds are demanding, they have a lot of energy and if you can release that with training, exercise and socializing then you can have a happy and healthy dog who isn’t dangerous and these dogs don’t just flip a switch to turn into a vicious killer.

There are so few people that give a single fata about "rehabbing" a vicious dog, though. Like, your story isn't inspiring. I'm sitting here shocked you'd put yourself, your family, your property, your community and your reputation on the line for a 200 pound mastiff your enormous husband could "barely contain." That is not sensible and it is egregiously irresponsible.

Even you sit here saying bully breeds require exercise, socializing, and training in order to NOT be a vicious killer. Well hate to break it to you, but people just aren't going to put in all that effort, so the breeds need to go. Look back through this thread and read up on some of the insane attacks over the years. Bully breeds. And typically they're sweethearts until they're not.

[PepsiFree]

I’m not even sure if there’s a compelling argument FOR pit bulls and dogs like them other than overly sentimental claptrap. Society bred the type for blood sports, it was literally their purpose to breed an animal more adept at fighting and killing. We’ve let breeds go extinct before, we can do it again here. Nothing lost.

I fully understand people who own and love dogs. But there’s no reason Dan living in Woodbine needs 2 pit bulls, or Rottweilers, or whatever. Choose an easier to control and manage breed. It’s not hard.

[karl262]

"My dog was the sweetest and wouldn't hurt a fly, I'm shocked. Its never done anything like this before" says every pit bull owner after it attacks someone.

Not a chance 3 abused/rescue goldendoodles would maul and kill a human if they got out of their yard.

On the other hand, I did see a picture of a pit bull in a tutu and flower crown, so maybe they really are good dogs after all?

[PeteMoss]

Pitbulls are banned in Ontario and when my dog was a puppy - I had a few pro-Pit Bull people constantly stopping me and telling me my dog was part pitbull. It was like they were trying to bring me into their club. I'd tell them he's not and they would insist he was and that it was ok.

Non pitbull people would never bring it up and just do the usual puppy chatter.

(my dog is like 25lbs as an adult so I assume its the fact that he's black with white markings was the cause of their assuming he was a pitbull)

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by karl262

"My dog was the sweetest and wouldn't hurt a fly, I'm shocked. Its never done anything like this before" says every pit bull owner after it attacks someone.

Not a chance 3 abused/rescue goldendoodles would maul and kill a human if they got out of their yard.

On the other hand, I did see a picture of a pit bull in a tutu and flower crown, so maybe they really are good dogs after all?

I bolded another terrible mentality from bad dog owners. This is absolute horse####, and believing stuff like this does nothing to prevent dog bites.

[The Yen Man]

I still have yet to see a compelling argument for keeping the Pitbull breed around as a pet option. It's not like we're saying ban all dogs. Just restrict ownership of certain breeds that we know are aggressive and harder to control and train vs. other breeds. Seems like such a common sense thing to do, yet we continue to choose not to do it.

Hell, if we want to keep them around, then why not make it so owners and dogs have to go through proper training (at the owner's expense) in order to get a license to legally own one?

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I bolded another terrible mentality from bad dog owners. This is absolute horse####, and believing stuff like this does nothing to prevent dog bites.

I didn't say bite. I said maul and kill.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If I can't own a Pitbull, how will people know how tough and edgy I am?

Monster Energy and scary skull decals on their trucks?

As a dog owner, I believe we should all require applications and assessments for suitability of ownership, for the sake of the dogs as well as society. We had an in home assessment before we could adopt a Malamute from a rescue society. Wasn’t a big deal.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by karl262

I didn't say bite. I said maul and kill.

Dangling any dog with “this would never happen” is nonsense and directly related to the problem being discussed.

So it’s cool if a goldendoodle bites a kids face and permanently scars them?

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Sliver

There are so few people that give a single fata about "rehabbing" a vicious dog, though. Like, your story isn't inspiring. I'm sitting here shocked you'd put yourself, your family, your property, your community and your reputation on the line for a 200 pound mastiff your enormous husband could "barely contain." That is not sensible and it is egregiously irresponsible.

Even you sit here saying bully breeds require exercise, socializing, and training in order to NOT be a vicious killer. Well hate to break it to you, but people just aren't going to put in all that effort, so the breeds need to go. Look back through this thread and read up on some of the insane attacks over the years. Bully breeds. And typically they're sweethearts until they're not.

It doesn't matter what I say here, at the start he wasn't mean and vicious. My family wasn't in jeopardy, neither of my other two dogs were in any sort of risk, they all got along great, it was just leash reactivity, and I'm 100% sure there are others in this thread even who has a dog that is reactive on leash.

Anyway, my point is, there are so many breeds that have issues, so many breeds that are interbred with pitbulls. We have rescued/fostered labs, shepherds, huskies, chihuahuas, pitbull mixes with all those other friendly breeds, how do you deal with all those mixed breeds? You can't just go around and scoop up all the mixed breed dogs and euthanize them.

But you can start to educate people on breeds and what suits people best.

You're right, a lot of owners who own powerful breeds do no socialize them properly, nor do they know how to and they do not exercise them enough.

My husband works with dogs on a regular basis, the worse biters and least trained of them all are doodles. All the types of doodles. People expect their dog to get trained going to doggy daycare, that is irresponsible too.

I am not for breed bans, I am not for people breeding pitbulls at all, it needs to stop. There are enough troubled dogs out there of all large breeds, the only sensible way to stop backyard breeders and those who don't follow the rules or think they can handle it is to start training more people about dog behaviour and educating our kids, etc.

This latest story is very tragic, I just can't even imagine what that scene was like or how horrific it would be to end your life that way.

What can our society do today to help mitigate this? What is your solution? They won't stop breeding them (which I do not support at all), you will never stop people from being able to get pitbulls, so you do a country wide ban?

What do we do?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

It doesn't matter what I say here, at the start he wasn't mean and vicious. My family wasn't in jeopardy, neither of my other two dogs were in any sort of risk, they all got along great, it was just leash reactivity, and I'm 100% sure there are others in this thread even who has a dog that is reactive on leash.

Anyway, my point is, there are so many breeds that have issues, so many breeds that are interbred with pitbulls. We have rescued/fostered labs, shepherds, huskies, chihuahuas, pitbull mixes with all those other friendly breeds, how do you deal with all those mixed breeds? You can't just go around and scoop up all the mixed breed dogs and euthanize them.

But you can start to educate people on breeds and what suits people best.

You're right, a lot of owners who own powerful breeds do no socialize them properly, nor do they know how to and they do not exercise them enough.

My husband works with dogs on a regular basis, the worse biters and least trained of them all are doodles. All the types of doodles. People expect their dog to get trained going to doggy daycare, that is irresponsible too.

I am not for breed bans, I am not for people breeding pitbulls at all, it needs to stop. There are enough troubled dogs out there of all large breeds, the only sensible way to stop backyard breeders and those who don't follow the rules or think they can handle it is to start training more people about dog behaviour and educating our kids, etc.

This latest story is very tragic, I just can't even imagine what that scene was like or how horrific it would be to end your life that way.

What can our society do today to help mitigate this? What is your solution? They won't stop breeding them (which I do not support at all), you will never stop people from being able to get pitbulls, so you do a country wide ban?

What do we do?

Yeah. It's really not that tough. In a generation they're gone. Over several generations their traits are diluted. It's really that simple.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Pitbulls are banned in Ontario and when my dog was a puppy - I had a few pro-Pit Bull people constantly stopping me and telling me my dog was part pitbull. It was like they were trying to bring me into their club. I'd tell them he's not and they would insist he was and that it was ok.

Non pitbull people would never bring it up and just do the usual puppy chatter.

(my dog is like 25lbs as an adult so I assume its the fact that he's black with white markings was the cause of their assuming he was a pitbull)

yup and perfect example of why pitbulls are mislabeled all the time, people think they know what they look like, but not all of these mixed breeds are actually pitbulls but in some of the news stories this happens, therefore the numbers are inflated.