The Legend of Sam Bennett

[ComixZone]

It’d be easier to take if the players we banked on weren’t the players they are.

Monahan and Backlund at the picks we got them are effectively found money. It’s neither of their faults that this team slotted them both incorrectly, and didn’t properly develop Bennett.

Monahan and Backlund are good value picks for where we got them. This team thinking they were good enough to win with though, that is inexcusable. The lack of opportunity given to Bennett in favour of Backlund and Monahan is inexcusable. It’s one of many reasons why this organization hasn’t won anything. They bank on players that aren’t good enough to fill the roles given to them. Poor talent assessment all over the place.

[dino7c]

Wrong thread

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

So Tre was fleeced it seems.

Sutter coach to start the season and Bennett is still a Flame.

Doubtful, Flames still would’ve had Bennett outside of the protection list and he still wouldn’t have been playing above Lindholm, Monahan or Backlund. He still would’ve been traded regardless.

I still don’t understand the Sutter-Bennett lovefest. Whole lot of confirmation bias in my opinion. Sure he was play a lot more minutes under Sutter, but is 15 games, 1 goal, 7 assists and a -3 anything to write home about? I don’t think so. If anything, Derek Ryan’s presence could’ve been the bigger factor.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

You think the Lightning are mad at letting Carter Verhaeghe go for nothing? You think they're having a massive internal audit about their player development? I know, they simply didn't have a roster spot for him, but still, I doubt they're losing much sleep over it.

The Lightning are the defending champs and retained their core.

The Flames lost their best playoff performer and haven't had much playoff success.

Not the same.

What about the multiple teams that had Duclair, it didn't work out there, and he moved on? You think NYR, Arizona, Chicago, Columbus, and Ottawa ALL mishandled him and regret letting him go?

Duclair is a winger.

Bennett is a center.


Top two line centers don't grow on trees. You gotta draft them VERY high 99% of the time. Skilled wingers are a lot easier to acquire.

You cannot defend the Flames' usage of Sam Bennett. SIX years he was a Flame and never got a stretch of legitimate opportunity that his talent level demanded. The Flames blatantly screwed the pooch on what might have been their most valuable asset.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It’d be easier to take if the players we banked on weren’t the players they are.

Monahan and Backlund at the picks we got them are effectively found money. It’s neither of their faults that this team slotted them both incorrectly, and didn’t properly develop Bennett.

Monahan and Backlund are good value picks for where we got them. This team thinking they were good enough to win with though, that is inexcusable. The lack of opportunity given to Bennett in favour of Backlund and Monahan is inexcusable. It’s one of many reasons why this organization hasn’t won anything. They bank on players that aren’t good enough to fill the roles given to them. Poor talent assessment all over the place.

Maybe.

That's all I can say. I'm sure we all saw the same thing most nights from Bennett, so it's not like he was beating down the door and forced any tough decisions. Perhaps Backlund, but don't forget the massive success of the 3M line. Perhaps Monahan, but don't forget the ridiculous success of the Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm line a couple years ago.

The only real opportunity was last year, and that was a stupidly crazy years for the Flames:

Peters involved in racism scandal
Brodie collapses on ice
COVID emerges and shuts down the league

It's perfectly understandable that they forget to think if Bennett needed a better opportunity to play. To me, it was never that obvious that he needed to play a LOT higher than he was, but it was also stupid that he ever ended up on the 4th line. That's how you kill a good player's confidence.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

The Conroy for Stillman trade is one. It was so bad that Iginla of all people sewered it in the paper.

Others I'd argue (at least a few of these ended up great you have to admit):

* Kent Nilsson for a 4th rounder (Nieuwendyk)
* Housley/Keczmer for Albelin, Hulse and Jocelyn Lemieux
* Nieuwendyk for Iginla/Millen (remember "Jarome Who?")
* Hoglund/Zalapski for Val Bure and a 4th
* Huselius for Montador (lots of complaining because Huselius was just on waivers)
* Baertschi for a 2nd (Rasmus Andersson)
* Lucic for Neal

Nilsson was traded for a 2nd rounder.


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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Maybe.

That's all I can say. I'm sure we all saw the same thing most nights from Bennett, so it's not like he was beating down the door and forced any tough decisions. Perhaps Backlund, but don't forget the massive success of the 3M line. Perhaps Monahan, but don't forget the ridiculous success of the Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm line a couple years ago.

The only real opportunity was last year, and that was a stupidly crazy years for the Flames:

Peters involved in racism scandal
Brodie collapses on ice
COVID emerges and shuts down the league

It's perfectly understandable that they forget to think if Bennett needed a better opportunity to play. To me, it was never that obvious that he needed to play a LOT higher than he was, but it was also stupid that he ever ended up on the 4th line. That's how you kill a good player's confidence.

The problems started the first season with Gulutzan.

The duos should have been Gaudreau-Monahan, Tkachuk-Bennett, Backlund-Frolik. That’s where it should have been, always.

Instead they did what they did, and we are where we are. We allowed Monahan to develop into the liability he is through years of bad coaches that allowed bad-habits to form, we crushed Bennett’s confidence, and relied on Backlund to fill a role he just doesn’t have the offensive skill to fill. These decisions delivered the results that we’ve gotten and that we’ve deserved.

Really it’s all in the past, but I just don’t buy arguments that he shouldn’t have played ahead of Backlund, or at the very least have gotten Tkachuk on his wing. This team did not have the amount of success to justify not investing in Bennett as a top-6 centre. They rushed Bennett to the NHL and then refused to develop him at the NHL level competently.

To Bennett’s credit, he did a decent job finding ways to contribute while getting kicked around the lineup. He’d always stand up for his teammates, and he was great in the playoffs.

Florida will benefit from the Flames’ incompetence.

[Jore]

When you get the chance to draft a potential #1 C as the highest pick in your franchise history, you got to develop him as a 4th line winger

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Nilsson was traded for a 2nd rounder.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Two 2nds actually
The second was used to take Step On My Toe

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It’s not that Treliving was fleeced in this deal.

It’s what transpired while Bennett was here that sure as hell better be figured out. Just bad luck? Nope I don’t think so. Too many people complained about how he was being used so the old “no one saw this coming” doesn’t apply.

Cant say I was one of those people so I was definitely missing something.

I think it could be as simple as proper slotting and depth.

I mean, just look at Taylor Hall as an example. In Buffalo, 2 goals, 19 points and -21 in 37 games. In Boston, 11 games, already has 5 goals, 10 points and +11.

Phil Kessel is another good example. In Pittsburgh, just another guy, puts up 80-90 points, wins 2 Cups. In Arizona, he’s expected to be the guy and that’s tough to do by yourself, so his production has dipped considerably.

Seems to be a lot easier when you can just be one of the guys, playing with other good players who can help make your job a lot easier. Probably doesn’t hurt to have some elite players who drive play as well.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The problems started the first season with Gulutzan.

The duos should have been Gaudreau-Monahan, Tkachuk-Bennett, Backlund-Frolik. That’s where it should have been, always.

Instead they did what they did, and we are where we are. We allowed Monahan to develop into the liability he is through years of bad coaches that allowed bad-habits to form, we crushed Bennett’s confidence, and relied on Backlund to fill a role he just doesn’t have the offensive skill to fill. These decisions delivered the results that we’ve gotten and that we’ve deserved.

Really it’s all in the past, but I just don’t buy arguments that he shouldn’t have played ahead of Backlund, or at the very least have gotten Tkachuk on his wing. This team did not have the amount of success to justify not investing in Bennett as a top-6 centre. They rushed Bennett to the NHL and then refused to develop him at the NHL level competently.

To Bennett’s credit, he did a decent job finding ways to contribute while getting kicked around the lineup. He’d always stand up for his teammates, and he was great in the playoffs.

Florida will benefit from the Flames’ incompetence.

Yeah, you won't see me defending Gulutzan for a second, but again...maybe.

Maybe what you're saying is correct and Sam would have popped for us. But also, maybe it wouldn't have made a difference and he needed to mature and have a change of scenery before popping.

Hindsight is 20/20, but rarely is it 100% accurate either. There's a lot of speculation in what went wrong, but it's just speculation.

I will say definitively that he was mishandled. I do believe he deserved more of a chance in the top 6 to prove himself. I also believe he needed better coaches. but I also am unsure of what Sam would have looked like with all those things in place. Better? Sure. Fantastic? Unsure. That's where I stand.

It just seemed to me that Sam took a long time to adjust to NHL style of play. Just a couple years ago he was still doing toe drags every time he got the puck and took offensive zone penalties because he was behind a guy and lazily reached for him trying to get the puck. To me, that's partly on coaching and partly on the player for not adapting quickly.

I just think Sam is one of those guys who needed to go through all that stuff to learn the hard way how to be successful in the NHL. Unfortunately, the Flames don't benefit from that, which sucks, but I don't think a full scale organizational indictment is in order either. Lots of young players have come up and played for the Flames, been given opportunities, and had success. I think Bennett is the outlier, not the norm.

[ComixZone]

I have a hard time with thinking Sam needed more time to develop to the league. He had a stronger rookie season than Monahan did.

…that 2nd year though.

To me this is all just the perfect end to an era for the Flames. 7 years of futility and mismanagement topped off by trading the highest pick in the organization’s history for spare parts, only for him to pop off elsewhere.

As a fan, I can’t move on from this era fast enough. I really do hope it ends and Treliving is fired at the conclusion of the season.

[Strange Brew]

^ To Cali if you’re definitively saying he was mishandled that is a huge indictment for the highest draft pick in franchise history.

Of course there are a million maybes but you look at what the organization can control.

[SeanCharles]

The problem is Sutter is the first coach who has had a reward system.

Sutter rewards players who are playing well with more ice time and I think a guy like Bennett thrives with more ice time cause it builds his confidence.

Anytime Bennett did well he was never rewarded with more ice time or better linemates, at least not for reasonable amount of time.

He was viewed as a guy who could play up and down the lineup so that exactly what the coaches did.

He finally has consistent assignments with good players and is thriving.

Who would have guessed?

I don’t get how you don’t put your highest pick ever in better situations to succeed?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I have a hard time with thinking Sam needed more time to develop to the league. He had a stronger rookie season than Monahan did.

…that 2nd year though.

To me this is all just the perfect end to an era for the Flames. 7 years of futility and mismanagement topped off by trading the highest pick in the organization’s history for spare parts, only for him to pop off elsewhere.

As a fan, I can’t move on from this era fast enough. I really do hope it ends and Treliving is fired at the conclusion of the season.

I'm having a hard time disagreeing with this. It's been a mixed bag, with some real promise, but the trend downwards has been happening for a few years now which is not what you expect with a team at this stage in development.

Treliving has earned a pink slip at this point. Trouble is, who else do you get to run the team? Certainly not Conroy.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

^ To Cali if you’re definitively saying he was mishandled that is a huge indictment for the highest draft pick in franchise history.

Of course there are a million maybes but you look at what the organization can control.

I'm saying it's both. He didn't do enough to adapt to the league, and he was also mishandled in his development, meaning the right approach was not used for him.

To me, it's not a glaring issue where they sewered his career with decisions made. Instead, it's a 50/50 proposition, with both sides to blame.

But yes, it does warrant some introspection as a franchise. I just think there are enough success stories to forgive the one time it really didn't happen.

[soulchoice]

43 point pace now over 82 games. Keep it going Sammy!

[bubbsy]

Lol another 2 points for Bennett. Good for him.

Flames are such a loser franchise. One thing that they are good for is making dumb decisions every step of the way.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Lol another 2 points for Bennett. Good for him.

Flames are such a loser franchise. One thing that they are good for is making dumb decisions every step of the way.

It is certainly disheartening to be a fan of this team. From questionable management and coaching hires, a mediocre prospect base to go along with being a bottom tier city/destination to play in the NHL; I have a fear it’ll be ages before any success comes to fruition.

Sad thing is no matter what, I’ll still cheer for the Flames. Heck, even if they moved to Houston, I’d still have the Flames as my main team. So, I am stuck for life.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm saying it's both. He didn't do enough to adapt to the league, and he was also mishandled in his development, meaning the right approach was not used for him.

To me, it's not a glaring issue where they sewered his career with decisions made. Instead, it's a 50/50 proposition, with both sides to blame.

But yes, it does warrant some introspection as a franchise. I just think there are enough success stories to forgive the one time it really didn't happen.

I don’t know about all the success stories really. Of course this club has developed some good players but it’s time for some honesty about the quality of the players here. The good is not outweighing the bad unfortunately.