American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

He's also a convicted felon due to be sentenced later this month, and he has more legal issues to deal with in the future if he doesn't get elected. His new political opponent is surging in the polls. Even someone as narcissistic as him has to be struggling to cope. I'd be in bed all day if I was in his situation.

I wonder if one of his followers will volunteer to serve time for him.

Fireitup?

[ResAlien]

We’re getting back to “don’t criticize Hillary/Joe” territory again. If you’re telling someone they have a single choice and a single path forward you’re not in a democracy but you already knew that.

If you truly feel that speaking out against a candidate’s positions is beyond the pale you’re not in a political party you’re in a cult.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I wonder if one of his followers will volunteer to serve time for him.

Fireitup?

It's amazing how many people are already serving time for him.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

We’re getting back to “don’t criticize Hillary/Joe” territory again. If you’re telling someone they have a single choice and a single path forward you’re not in a democracy but you already knew that.

If you truly feel that speaking out against a candidate’s positions is beyond the pale you’re not in a political party you’re in a cult.

If you are referring to things I am saying, I’m absolutely not suggesting that. But protesting and appearing to be a raucous group feeds the other sides already warped views of the left. So speak out at appropriate moments, advocate for different policy positions but try to limit self inflicted wounds,

[Ped]

Protestors should be allowed to protest. That's a pretty basic right, or at least it should be. I think the worry for a lot of people is not to say "You can't criticize them at all!" but that by with the polls so close, maybe you're pushing people back toward the other side - which is absolutely going to be worse for everyone except the Trump family.


And if you're protesting these things against one side, are you also protesting them against the other? I honestly don't know. Obviously the GOP campaign is quiet right now other than couchboy following Harris around. Harris is in the news so undoubtedly they are trying to get maximum exposure, and especially with the way the media has covered this election, maybe they don't even get on the news if they protest against Trump or Vance.


It is absolutely their right to protest. But I think it's also fair to ask if you are accomplishing your goals doing it - in both the short-term and long-term. If they think they are, then so be it.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

We’re getting back to “don’t criticize Hillary/Joe” territory again. If you’re telling someone they have a single choice and a single path forward you’re not in a democracy but you already knew that.

If you truly feel that speaking out against a candidate’s positions is beyond the pale you’re not in a political party you’re in a cult.

Once the 2 candidates are confirmed, there is a single choice.

[ResAlien]

I refuse to accept anyone’s politics or opinions should be guided by how their actions may influence the opposing party’s view of them. That’s like “oh no oilers fans are going to laugh at us”. That is fandom and if we’ve made politics fandom then the plot’s already lost. You don’t operate to placate the opposition you operate to have the views and stances you deem important be represented by those you elect.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I wonder if one of his followers will volunteer to serve time for him.

Fireitup?

Hundreds already are.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

We’re getting back to “don’t criticize Hillary/Joe” territory again. If you’re telling someone they have a single choice and a single path forward you’re not in a democracy but you already knew that.

If you truly feel that speaking out against a candidate’s positions is beyond the pale you’re not in a political party you’re in a cult.

In the US you really only have two choices. The others are just vanity votes.

And the hard left seems to criticize the Democrats a lot more than the Republicans, which is counterproductive.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by pepsifree

again, when push comes to shove, do you actually think they’re not going to vote for her?

what are they supposed to say? “there are no consequences for not listening to our protest! But please listen to us anyway!”

2016

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

Yes, but interrupting her gives potential sound bite for the republicans to use plus you are taking positive energy out of the room and campaign. My calculation is that has to be hurting her and not helping her whether they are going to vote for her or not.

And, in fact, she was meeting with and listening to people supporting their views at the same event. Who I guarantee got much more out of their actions than the people who just wanted to shout.

[Bonded]

How about they go protest at Trump events. It’s not even they can’t criticize Kamala. It’s more about being effective on meeting their goals.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Again, when push comes to shove, do you actually think they’re not going to vote for her?

What are they supposed to say? “There are no consequences for not listening to our protest! But please listen to us anyway!”

I don't think these people would vote for Trump, but they may just stay home, so yes, it's a distinct possibility that they won't vote for her.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

2016

Hillary Clinton is extremely unlikable. I thought she was a weak candidate and just more of the same for the Democrats who couldn't, up till two weeks ago, get the #### out of their own way for 8 years.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Hillary Clinton is extremely unlikable. I thought she was a weak candidate and just more of the same for the Democrats who couldn't, up till two weeks ago, get the #### out of their own way for 8 years.

The Gaza protesters make Kamala look more of the same and she isn’t really a strong candidate imo. She would not even be the nominee if things didn’t play out like they did.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The Gaza protesters make Kamala look more of the same and she isn’t really a strong candidate imo. She would not even be the nominee if things didn’t play out like they did.

I actually think Biden's responses in those kinds of situations have generally been better than Harris' was, so she comes off looking worse. He normally concedes that the protesters have a legitimate point and that what's going on is horrible, whereas Harris just sounds condescending.

And like it or not, these things are going to happen. People can sit back and say "it's a binary choice and these people are idiots if they bolster Trump through their actions," but that doesn't change the fact that Harris needs to be able to respond well. But like you say, she's not a very strong candidate. They really just need to limit her off the cuff stuff and try to play out the clock on the campaign and hope she doesn't have too many missteps. If she plays to her strengths and sticks mostly to scripted stuff in friendly environments, this election is definitely winnable on a combination of vibes and voters' dislike for Trump. Republicans are flailing right now, so as long as they don't get any ammo, Harris stands a good chance.

[rubecube]

God forbid people make candidates earn their votes on issues that matter to them as opposed to consistently being told to vote for the lesser of two evils.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It's simply a binary choice. It's a trolley problem and they're actively pulling the switch in a direction that leads to more people getting run over by the trolley. If their actual goal is to reduce, to the greatest extent possible, the harm to Palestinians in Gaza, they are acting in a manner that is counterproductive to that goal.

I don't think anyone in that group would have the first clue as to whether they're actually motivated by that sort of utilitarian thinking, nor would they bother to reflect on what the actual justification for their actions is supposed to be. Unless Bonded is right and they're plants, I guess, but that reeks of conspiracy thinking and the Ockham's Razor explanation is that they're just dumb.

Well I agree that their methods are likely not productive at all, but I actually think protesting like that is better than defacing a public park or marching in the streets and yelling 'death to Jews.'

Also, the White House has suggested that many of the protesters are paid agents of Iran, which Harris I'm sure knows and which also gives her the right to tell them to shut up.

But right now its quite amusing to watch.

Walz is not anti-Israel, and Harris has been part of an administration that has been supporting Israel to this point. To this point is seen as genocide in the eyes of many on the left. The protesters see this as an issue and say they won't vote for someone who supports the so called 'genocide.' Most others, including lots on here who have been screaming genocide from the start have no problem jumping all over the Harris / Walz train.

Which is what I meant that no matter the policy, if its your team, you support it.

Disclaimer: not saying the Trump team has a better Israel policy, but then again Trump hasn't been in charge the last couple years while Israel has basically done whatever they wanted in Gaza to eradicate Hamas. Biden / Harris have been in charge, so can't wait to see all the comments here where people trip over themselves trying to excuse Harris and now as an extension Walz for their pretty clear support of what Israel is doing. Which the protestors, Fuzz and Zary's Moustache & Bagor all agree is genocide.

For the record, I do not agree with what the protesters are saying, but I'm not delusional enough to believe that if Harris is POTUS that it won't be status quo. If anything, Harris is further going to continue the Obama policy of appeasing Iran which is likely just going to create an even bigger mess in the region.

[devo22]

this Trump press conference is predictably a train wreck. Nothing but lies, self-pity, weird bragging about crowd sizes and an almost hilarious saltiness about the fact he isn't running against Biden anymore. That man is clearly not well.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bonded

It is because the Republicans are even worse for their goals and the Democrats might actually put some pressure on Israel towards an end to the war.

Fascinating.

So Gaza is in ruin, and according to the protesters and yourself, the genocide has already happened, literally under a Democrat controlled executive branch, & majority Democrat controlled Senate, but in the future another Democrat controlled executive branch might put a stop to it even though they've done nothing up till now?

Do you fall on your face trying to spin that?