The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by motorcrosser

So is the Neal signing what's causing this problem? If so, Treliving should have foreseen this, no?

Sent from Indianapolis

In what sense? That Neal’s UFA contract has set the asking price for Tkachuk? Or that it put a squeeze on cap room?

I don’t think Neal’s contract has anything to do with this negotiation.


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[Poe969]

I don't get it, if the player wants to play here and the team wants him to play here you'd think some kind of deal would have been made by now.

I just think he's going to end up on a different team.



Sent from my unhappy place full of doubt and fear

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't get it, if the player wants to play here and the team wants him to play here you'd think some kind of deal would have been made by now.

I just think he's going to end up on a different team.



Sent from my unhappy place full of doubt and fear

It's gonna be alright, Honey Bunny. Be cool.

[motorcrosser]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In what sense? That Neal’s UFA contract has set the asking price for Tkachuk? Or that it put a squeeze on cap room?

I don’t think Neal’s contract has anything to do with this negotiation.


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I mean Neal's outrageous contract (now the lucic outrageous contract) has the flames paying $4 mil (or whatever it is). This additional $4 mil per year could be used for tkachuk.

Sent from Indianapolis

[Stillman16]

Originally Posted by motorcrosser

I mean Neal's outrageous contract (now the lucic outrageous contract) has the flames paying $4 mil (or whatever it is). This additional $4 mil per year could be used for tkachuk.

Sent from Indianapolis

Not true, GM’s need to start holding the line! It’s getting out of control.

Every cave in they have, makes the next signings worse. Soon, it’ll be a first line and a top D pairing, and fill in with minimum contracts....even the majority of the players (that could be forced out, or to minimum contracts) must see this happening...

This is why the Mangiapane contract being near minimum is probably the best for BOTH sides. It will make him a more valuable assets as cap space gets short! In the past, he likely would have made more, but can’t pay bottom line guys on much now...

[Iniggywetrust]

Originally Posted by bigpete

This is starting to annoy me. What, you are going to hold out because the 100 million you are going to make over the course of your career isn't good enough? Gotta hold out so you can make 106 million?



These guys make more money in 3 months than most people make in their whole lifetime. Isn't there a point when you make more money than you can possibly ever spend? Money should be the least of their concerns. Especially if your family is already super loaded.



And most teams spend to the cap or close to it. So really the greedier these top end guys are, the less there is to go around for their teammates.



Just grinds my gears.

End rant.

Would you want to make 6% more over the next 6 years?

That 6% could feed a family on a third world country for a year.

It's all relative.

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[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Stillman16

Not true, GM’s need to start holding the line! It’s getting out of control.

Every cave in they have, makes the next signings worse. Soon, it’ll be a first line and a top D pairing, and fill in with minimum contracts....even the majority of the players (that could be forced out, or to minimum contracts) must see this happening...

This is why the Mangiapane contract being near minimum is probably the best for BOTH sides. It will make him a more valuable assets as cap space gets short! In the past, he likely would have made more, but can’t pay bottom line guys on much now...

The agents should realize this. No contracts they negotiate increase the total money available for all of the players. They are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by motorcrosser

I mean Neal's outrageous contract (now the lucic outrageous contract) has the flames paying $4 mil (or whatever it is). This additional $4 mil per year could be used for tkachuk.

Sent from Indianapolis

The Flames have one bad contract and 2.6 million in buyouts on the cap. Contrast that with the army of value contracts we have. We are tight this year due to the activity last summer, the unexpected flattening of the cap, and the Tkachuk contract. But going forward, at least for the next three years, we are in great shape.

Besides, the Tkachuk stall has nothing at all to do with the cap this season. Treliving is playing his leverage to try and get another value contract on the books.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The agents should realize this. No contracts they negotiate increase the total money available for all of the players. They are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

GMs should realize the more they are handcuffed by paying their best players the most money, the better it is for them.

If gaudrau is making 8 million the flames aren't signing then buying out stone at 3.5

The argument that tkachuk should take less money so that treliving can waste it on buyout candidates is idiotic.

You can't have 3 million sitting there in dead cap space and then cry that there is no money or that if tkachuk gets paid what he's asking that it means trading a player and making the team worse.

If the flames have to trade frolik or Brodie to fit in tkachuk, it won't be tkachuks fault for buying out brouwer and stone and paying lucic 5+ million.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

GMs should realize the more they are handcuffed by paying their best players the most money, the better it is for them.

If gaudrau is making 8 million the flames aren't singing then buying out stone at 3.5

The argument that tkachuk should take less money so that treliving can waste it on buyout candidates is idiotic.

You can't have 3 million sitting there in dead cap space and then cry that there is no money or that if tkachuk gets paid what he's asking that it means trading a player and making the team worse.

If the flames have to trade frolik or Brodie to fit in tkachuk, it won't be tkachuks fault for buying out brouwer and stone and paying lucic 5+ million.

Well, Tre has done a great job which is why the Flames are a contender . Ignoring all of the great contracts he has is idiotic. They have a lot of steals.

I will tell you what else is likely to turn out being idiotic. Dubas paying 3 guys over 11 million and having over 10 guys making less than a million

If he was handcuffed to the tune of 9 or 10 per guy, that would be better than 11. The idea that the more you pay anybody benefits you is idiotic

If you are fortunate and get good value out of your bottom six, you are fortunate. But odds are you get what you pay for.

Committed money is what it is. Ignoring that is idiotic

[getbak]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The agents should realize this. No contracts they negotiate increase the total money available for all of the players. They are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The problem is that if Paul is your client and Peter is Ritch Winter's client, you're still coming out ahead.

[slcrocket]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The agents should realize this. No contracts they negotiate increase the total money available for all of the players. They are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

But Paul pays the agent. Why should they give a #### about Peter?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

GMs should realize the more they are handcuffed by paying their best players the most money, the better it is for them.

If gaudrau is making 8 million the flames aren't signing then buying out stone at 3.5

The argument that tkachuk should take less money so that treliving can waste it on buyout candidates is idiotic...

It’s no more idiotic than the argument that Treliving should overpay his top players as a vehicle for preventing him from spending money on UFAs.


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[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It’s no more idiotic than the argument that Treliving should overpay his top players as a vehicle for preventing him from spending money on UFAs.


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Good thing this is just a straw man then and not an actual argument anyone is suggesting.

Phewf.

I'd hate to think you were just trying to troll a poster.

[PugnaciousIntern]

It's not as insane as everybody is making it out to be. There have been a few crazy contracts mostly thanks to one special GM, but most have been quite reasonable.

This is the storyline every year. The biggest thing is that the RFA status puts players in a corner, no matter what. He can't sign with another team without the team giving up a ton of draft picks, which limits his potential offers. The longer he waits to sign in the season, the smaller the cap hit the team can feasibly offer him. I don't see what motivation BT has to give in. While Tkachuk is awesome, the Flames can handle things without him for a period of time. That's where having Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm/Backlund/etc is important. And knowing that the forwards are relatively healthy, and Bennett can slide into that spot, means there's even less motivation to give in.

Ultimately, the team is able to proceed without the player, and the player loses money by not playing.

On a side note...can offer sheets be presented at any time? Let's say a team like Arizona waits until November 30th, and offers a 7M annual cap hit. At that point, the Flames would need to trade a player to make room for that pro-rated cap hit, but Arizona doesn't need to give up 4 first rounders. Is that possible?

[stang]

I have another is this possible question....

Since he’s technically a free agent, could he sign a PTO to come to camp? I’m assuming a pto player is insured?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by stang

I have another is this possible question....

Since he’s technically a free agent, could he sign a PTO to come to camp? I’m assuming a pto player is insured?

I would assume insurance for a PTO is extremely low

[powderjunkie]

I expect almost all players purchase insurance for periods when they are between contracts...


Normally these narratives are overblown, but it really is astounding how badly Dubas pooched the M&M contracts.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't get it, if the player wants to play here and the team wants him to play here you'd think some kind of deal would have been made by now.

I just think he's going to end up on a different team.



Sent from my unhappy place full of doubt and fear

Johnny held out for longer than this.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

The agents should realize this. No contracts they negotiate increase the total money available for all of the players. They are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

They are working for their clients. This is nonsense. Agents don’t decide how to allocate a team’s cap.