Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[868904]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Why does Bennett need a change of scenery when he's already the team's 6th or 7th best forward?

This isn't a bubble player or a guy that they wish they could send to the minors.

I think the Flames would be okay with Bennett as a 3rd line energy player and paying him accordingly.

However, Bennett may see himself as a top 6 player, and may feel that he hasn't been given a real opportunity.

I'm not one of those who thinks that Bennett hasn't been given an opportunity. I don't think he's shown enough to be a top 6 guy. He has a lot of work to do, especially in the Summer. I've been harping on this for a few years now. He should be working hard on his skills during the Summer. He has a muffin of a shot, he can't get it off fast enough, he always shoots into a defender and can't thread passes through defenders. He can get to the danger areas, but he can't finish because he doesn't have the skills.

His points in junior appear to be the result of a high competitive nature. He willed his high point totals. The points didn't necessarily come easy for him and at the highest level, you need the top end skills to be a point producer.

It looks like the only thing he's been working on in the Summer seasons is on getting bigger, which I think is a mistake. It's on Bennett as much as it is on the Flames "development team" (which I use very loosely) on recognizing where the deficiencies in his game are. Bennett needs a serious upgrade on shooting skills, a whole Summer of working on that. His penalty shot attempt was pathetic last night. He doesn't have the skills to deke the goalie out and he has a weak release and shot. You can't teach creativity, but you can work on your release and shot.

He has the frame and size to be a power forward, but he lacks shooting skills, which is what all power forwards possess.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Bennett has no finish or accuracy on his shot. He fixes that watch out.

The oilers have no brains or direction in their management team. They fix that, watch out.

They won't tho.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yep 6th or 7th

I like your insight, but there's no way Bennett is a better forward than Backlund. Actually a little surprised you'd consider him 6th, placing Backlund below him.

Edit: I clearly can't count! 6th places him ahead of Frolik and Neal but behind Backlund. This could be argued for sure.

[Kybb79]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

The oilers have no brains or direction in their management team. They fix that, watch out.

They won't tho.

What does Bennett have to do with the Oilers?

[SeanCharles]

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Bennett-Backlund-Tkachuk

Leave that for a few games.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Bennett-Backlund-Tkachuk

Leave that for a few games.

I was just saying that on Saturday that they should try Benny with Chucky

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Why does Bennett need a change of scenery when he's already the team's 6th or 7th best forward?

This isn't a bubble player or a guy that they wish they could send to the minors.

The team doesn't need him to have a change of scenery but maybe he decides he does. What high scorer is satisfied being a good energy guy?

[Flash Walken]

Frolik has 7 freakin' goals by the way.

Scratched or not, tied for 3rd on the team.

It's part of why I don't think Bennett is generating all that dangerous 'high danger scoring chances'.

He is putting pucks on net inside the home plate, no doubt, but the situation's where that is happening are generally pretty weak. One of the reason's I rate Dube ahead of Bennett is that Dube has shown he can actually use his linemates. Ripping down the wing and fluttering in a logo burner for a line change and a faceoff registers as a high danger play, but they are mostly individual efforts and they mostly don't result in anything because their quality as scoring chances is extremely low danger.

If you watched him in junior or watch a bennett junior highlight reel, you can see where the problem is:

He's an off the rush player who doesn't pass particularly well (ie. pass accuracy or speed), and who has a shot that is a relative muffin that takes forever to get off. Big Old School Denis Potvin type wrist shot.

This is his draft + 4 year, he has better linemates than he had last year and is being used in more offensive situations with a new coach. The season is nearly a quarter finished. Yet, he is on roughly the same offensive pace as he was after 18 games last year. It is really commendable how he has cut down on the minors, but 20 points is just not enough production for 13-15 minutes a night.

No doubt he will have a streak here where he scores the bulk of his season total in a 10 day period, but I question whether he is really even a 3rd line player. His production suggests he's better suited to 4th line minutes and second unit PK.

He is certainly playing better than last year, there's no question about that. But then what does that say when it translates to the same offensive production?

If it continues like this I don't know if the team can move forward with the player as contract negotiations are likely to become contentious; the team position will be Bennett doesn't warrant a salary increase. I can't see that being a tenable situation for Bennett's camp.

He might be in for the Nick Ritchie deal next year. Angling for term that keeps him in the league over salary.

[Manhattanboy]

If we are talking forwards shouldn't as much if not more attention be on how to get James Neal going?

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

What does Bennett have to do with the Oilers?

Nothing. Just that you can say 'all this thing needs to do is this and it'll be this' but that doesn't mean much. Bennett could turn into a scorer. The oilers could turn into a good team. I wouldn't bet on either happening any time soon.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Frolik has 7 freakin' goals by the way.

Scratched or not, tied for 3rd on the team.

It's part of why I don't think Bennett is generating all that dangerous 'high danger scoring chances'.

He is putting pucks on net inside the home plate, no doubt, but the situation's where that is happening are generally pretty weak. One of the reason's I rate Dube ahead of Bennett is that Dube has shown he can actually use his linemates. Ripping down the wing and fluttering in a logo burner for a line change and a faceoff registers as a high danger play, but they are mostly individual efforts and they mostly don't result in anything because their quality as scoring chances is extremely low danger.

If you watched him in junior or watch a bennett junior highlight reel, you can see where the problem is:

He's an off the rush player who doesn't pass particularly well (ie. pass accuracy or speed), and who has a shot that is a relative muffin that takes forever to get off. Big Old School Denis Potvin type wrist shot.

This is his draft + 4 year, he has better linemates than he had last year and is being used in more offensive situations with a new coach. The season is nearly a quarter finished. Yet, he is on roughly the same offensive pace as he was after 18 games last year. It is really commendable how he has cut down on the minors, but 20 points is just not enough production for 13-15 minutes a night.

No doubt he will have a streak here where he scores the bulk of his season total in a 10 day period, but I question whether he is really even a 3rd line player. His production suggests he's better suited to 4th line minutes and second unit PK.

He is certainly playing better than last year, there's no question about that. But then what does that say when it translates to the same offensive production?

If it continues like this I don't know if the team can move forward with the player as contract negotiations are likely to become contentious; the team position will be Bennett doesn't warrant a salary increase. I can't see that being a tenable situation for Bennett's camp.

He might be in for the Nick Ritchie deal next year. Angling for term that keeps him in the league over salary.

Frolik has two empty net goals and a bank shot from behind the net. I love the guy defensively, but he's shooting 22% on the season.

Don't let a fortuitous start confuse who the player is.

Having said that Bennett doesn't get a pass, he hasn't been productive. The high danger thing though is a count of inside homeplate in dangerous situations so it doesn't count muffins. You have to tip the puck or get a pass in that zone which I think is their way of qualifying the chance by an assumption of the goalie having to move.

If Bennett puts up 18 points I don't think his agent or camp will have a whole lot to stand on. Plus we've never seen a complaint out of the guy for ice time, linemates, or situations ... don't see him as a malcontent demanding a trade.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by btimbit

There's no reason to think he can't turn it around in the future but until he does can we not jump down the throat of anyone that doesn't like what they see?

I think the only “throat jumping” is occurring when people do exactly what you’re saying not to do: seeing him for what he isn’t, instead of what he is.

What he IS, is a young player who has vastly improved his play away from the puck, and has potential to improve his play with it. What he isn’t is an 80 point player who is underperforming. What he IS is a high draft pick who hasn’t (and probably won’t) meet the potential of his draft year.

The way to deal with that isn’t to trade him away, it’s too revise expectations. If you take away his draft position, he’s an good young player on a good contract. When you add his draft position back in, he’s still both those things, but he’s also a disappointment. I don’t think it’s wise to trade player who are good, but not as good as you thought they’d be, unless they no longer fill a need or are being paid too much. Bennett falls into neither category.

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Bennett reminds me a lot of Paul Byron. A guy who gets tons of great chances and doesn't score on them.

Once that monkey gets off his back, he'll be fine. Would not be surprised if he becomes a 20+ goal scorer in the same manner that Byron did. Too many chances for him not to have some of them start to go in.

Yeah, 100% agree. I do think Bennett has a future as a hard nosed 40 point guy, maybe a season of 50+ in his future. To me, that’s a really valuable piece to have.

To the point of the thread, have the Flames held on too long? To trade him (in my mind): yes, absolutely. You are not going to get more value in a trade than you’ll get letting him develop. Revisit whether you need him or not when bigger UFA contracts are in store. No sense in moving him now when he’s a controllable asset.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Frolik has two empty net goals and a bank shot from behind the net. I love the guy defensively, but he's shooting 22% on the season.

Don't let a fortuitous start confuse who the player is.

But Bennett doesn't even have a fortuitous start to put him ahead of Frolik. At least Frolik has the fortuitous start to his name.

[ResAlien]

If Sam can carve out a Joe Colborne like career I think we’ll have to take that as a win. He’ll keep fitting in that bottom 6 energy role and be able to move up a line or two for short periods when needed. If he’s gotten his penchant for stupid penalties and falling down out of his system he’ll be quite a serviceable little player.

May as well hold on to him and not sign those overpriced 3rd/4th line UFA contracts that come back to bite teams.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Is bennett the teams' 6th or 7th best forward?

Gaudreau
Tkachuk
Lindholm
Monahan
Backlund
Frolik
Neal
Dube
Ryan

That's probably how I'd have them ranked.

Right now I'd have him higher than Dube and Ryan. Career wise lower than Neal obviously but for the moment, imo he's playing better than James.

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

If Sam can carve out a Joe Colborne

Right now, sadly, that is looking like his upside.... (in Calgary anyway)

Blake Comeau > Sam Bennett

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Frolik has 7 freakin' goals by the way.

Scratched or not, tied for 3rd on the team.

It's part of why I don't think Bennett is generating all that dangerous 'high danger scoring chances'.

He is putting pucks on net inside the home plate, no doubt, but the situation's where that is happening are generally pretty weak. One of the reason's I rate Dube ahead of Bennett is that Dube has shown he can actually use his linemates. Ripping down the wing and fluttering in a logo burner for a line change and a faceoff registers as a high danger play, but they are mostly individual efforts and they mostly don't result in anything because their quality as scoring chances is extremely low danger.

If you watched him in junior or watch a bennett junior highlight reel, you can see where the problem is:

He's an off the rush player who doesn't pass particularly well (ie. pass accuracy or speed), and who has a shot that is a relative muffin that takes forever to get off. Big Old School Denis Potvin type wrist shot.

This is his draft + 4 year, he has better linemates than he had last year and is being used in more offensive situations with a new coach. The season is nearly a quarter finished. Yet, he is on roughly the same offensive pace as he was after 18 games last year. It is really commendable how he has cut down on the minors, but 20 points is just not enough production for 13-15 minutes a night.

No doubt he will have a streak here where he scores the bulk of his season total in a 10 day period, but I question whether he is really even a 3rd line player. His production suggests he's better suited to 4th line minutes and second unit PK.

He is certainly playing better than last year, there's no question about that. But then what does that say when it translates to the same offensive production?

If it continues like this I don't know if the team can move forward with the player as contract negotiations are likely to become contentious; the team position will be Bennett doesn't warrant a salary increase. I can't see that being a tenable situation for Bennett's camp.

He might be in for the Nick Ritchie deal next year. Angling for term that keeps him in the league over salary.

His shot does take quite a long time to get off. The element of a quick release definitely isn't his forte, which is unfortunate as that is an advantage a player can have vs a goalie. Rather than using the toe of the blade to take a quick snap shot, he seems to still to use the old heel to toe method of shooting, hence the many shots which get blocked or deflected.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Frolik has two empty net goals and a bank shot from behind the net. I love the guy defensively, but he's shooting 22% on the season.

Don't let a fortuitous start confuse who the player is.

Having said that Bennett doesn't get a pass, he hasn't been productive. The high danger thing though is a count of inside homeplate in dangerous situations so it doesn't count muffins. You have to tip the puck or get a pass in that zone which I think is their way of qualifying the chance by an assumption of the goalie having to move.

If Bennett puts up 18 points I don't think his agent or camp will have a whole lot to stand on. Plus we've never seen a complaint out of the guy for ice time, linemates, or situations ... don't see him as a malcontent demanding a trade.

Cool, Frolik also has a body of work that shows he is a better player than Bennett has ever been, on top of his ‘fortuitous’ start. He’s definitely a better player than Bennett.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Cool, Frolik also has a body of work that shows he is a better player than Bennett has ever been, on top of his ‘fortuitous’ start. He’s definitely a better player than Bennett.

Has been =/= is.

[The Boy Wonder]

The puck isn’t bouncing in for Bennett. But he has contributed in every other possible way.

Some of it is his line mates not finishing on very nice set ups, or getting unlucky as the “3rd assist”

Once or if, Bennett starts getting points he will be a force because he is doing everything else so well this year.

If he starts burying a few he basically can become our Tom Wilson ( but not over the edge) and that would be awesome for this group