PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Keep losing? The Democrats lost one election, after being in power for eight years.

The Republicans also control congress and the senate. The U.S. election is part of the same anti-establishment reaction that saw the Brexit leave side win. In both cases, pundits and pollsters were astonished.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

This whole "unless you liberals change, it will be hard-right conservatives forever" is nonsense. Hell, 10 days ago the story was "unless the conservatives change, they'll never win again".

Do you really think only hard-right conservatives voted for Trump? So 200 counties that voted for Obama in the last election all of a sudden became KKK strongholds?

And the Republicans also have issues. They need to appeal more to Latinos and urban voters. They can't count on always running against a candidate with as tepid support among Democrats as Clinton.

Why is the centrist POV so difficult to understand? Why are so many otherwise intelligent people in the grips of binary, polarized thinking? Moving to an extreme doesn't counter the zealots on the other side - it fuels them.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There are only two (real) choices in the US election. Making assumptions about why half the voterbase voted for one of the two choices is a rather touchy and presumptuous game, don't you think?

If you are intolerant, while making sweeping generalizations, are you any better? That's the point (re: hypocrisy).

Anyway, I think you are simply still angry and that is what is motivating your posts. I've made my point and I'm out.

There's a different between making assumptions on why 60 million people voted and pointing out that all 60 million of those people decided that blatant hate speech against several different minorities, insults at a physically disabled man, connections to white supremacists (Breitbart), approval from the KKK, approval from Putin and Kim Jong Un, bringing in a VP who thinks it's acceptable to electrocute gay kids until they're straight, making explicit remarks about assaulting women, etc--none of these are bad enough to disqualify him for the Presidency of the US.

Clinton likely lost because of her one "deplorables" comment. Meanwhile Trump won after threatening to ban an entire religion from entering the country, after suggesting we do stop-and-frisk throughout the country which was deemed unconstitutional, after he was accused repeatedly of sexual assault of women and all kinds of questionable behavior towards women.

Regardless of your reasons why you like the guy, I have a hard time accepting that there are people who were able to overlook all of the awful things he said.

[GirlySports]

Witty: not so easy to suddenly get an education. Got high school diploma worked in factory for 20 years now the factory is gone and youre 40.

Suddenly the HS diploma that was enough is now in the stupid category.

Same for blacks. Stuck in a poor ghetto and people keep saying better yourself get a GED

But how?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Isn't this the "I can't be racist I have black friends" argument?

Can we start using "I can't be a regressive leftist, I have klan friends!" ?

[wittynickname]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/poli...low%3Afacebook

Her post said: ‘‘It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady in the White House. I’m tired of seeing a Ape in heels.’’

Clay Mayor Beverly Whaling responded: ‘‘Just made my day Pam.’’

And this right here is where that racism rears its head.

Trump voters I work with have been so excited at the idea of the Trumps in the White House, how they'll finally fix that place again. (One coworker compared them to the Kennedys, and said that Melania will be another Jackie O. Clearly some of these people are a bit unhinged.)

They aren't actively saying anything racist, and yet they act as if the Obamas have been a problem as a First Family. The Obamas have been incredible during Obama's term. Michelle is the most educated First Lady, and she has been the epitome of grace and poise and dignity, all while being attacked by the GOP for everything she does. The Obama's children have been scandal free and excellent role models for young women in this country.

But to these people, they've "disgraced" the White House, and if that isn't some dog-whistle racist rhetoric I don't know what is.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Witty: not so easy to suddenly get an education. Got high school diploma worked in factory for 20 years now the factory is gone and youre 40.

Suddenly the HS diploma that was enough is now in the stupid category.

Same for blacks. Stuck in a poor ghetto and people keep saying better yourself get a GED

But how?

You vote for the party whose platform includes increased funding for education, easier access to college, supports teachers unions.

Not the party that has spent 30 years trying to break teachers unions, has defunded education, that has tried to increase interest rates on student loans and tried to reduce Pell grants.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I do however reject your idea that intolerance deserves respect or tolerance. That is how extremist views are normalized, that's how awfulness creeps into the allowable public consciousness.

I said the exact same thing in a meeting about some of the shenanigans going on on campuses around the nation right now. All this bull#### about creating safe spaces where people can explore their feelings, including racist and intolerant speech, is insane. Call a spade-a-spade and deal with it. We are where we are because no one is willing to stand up to the bullies and say enough is enough. If the mass media did their job and stood up to Trump's behavior we likely wouldn't have a bully-in-chief being sworn in on January 20th. Trump's negative behaviors were enabled, and because of that similar negative behaviors are rearing their ugly heads all across the country. Enough is enough. No more kid gloves.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

If the mass media did their job and stood up to Trump's behavior we likely wouldn't have a bully-in-chief being sworn in on January 20th.

Trump was more reviled by the media than any other presidential candidate in living memory. The problem is so many people hate the mainstream media that their scorn for Trump only made him more popular.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

You vote for the party whose platform includes increased funding for education, easier access to college, supports teachers unions.

Not the party that has spent 30 years trying to break teachers unions, has defunded education, that has tried to increase interest rates on student loans and tried to reduce Pell grants.

for who? that's the key. That's the message Hillary could not convey.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Witty: not so easy to suddenly get an education. Got high school diploma worked in factory for 20 years now the factory is gone and youre 40.

Suddenly the HS diploma that was enough is now in the stupid category.

Same for blacks. Stuck in a poor ghetto and people keep saying better yourself get a GED

But how?

Community college. Lots of people are doing it. Learning is a life long endeavor and if you think you are too old for school you are only failing yourself.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/poli...low%3Afacebook

And this right here is where that racism rears its head.

Um yup holy #### fire them both. That's horrifying.

But to these people, they've "disgraced" the White House, and if that isn't some dog-whistle racist rhetoric I don't know what is.

Can't people just not like Obama? I mean, there are people like the above. Too many, really. But this is the problem right here. You can't mind-read, you can't imply that someone saying "Trump will fix the white house" is secretly thinking "because they'll kick the N-words out of there". That's a horrible thing to impute to someone.

... Besides, if the above is any indication, the people who are thinking that apparently have no problem brazenly saying so out loud. Good lord.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

I said the exact same thing in a meeting about some of the shenanigans going on on campuses around the nation right now. All this bull#### about creating safe spaces where people can explore their feelings, including racist and intolerant speech, is insane. Call a spade-a-spade and deal with it. We are where we are because no one is willing to stand up to the bullies and say enough is enough. If the mass media did their job and stood up to Trump's behavior we likely wouldn't have a bully-in-chief being sworn in on January 20th. Trump's negative behaviors were enabled, and because of that similar negative behaviors are rearing their ugly heads all across the country. Enough is enough. No more kid gloves.

Knock yourself out, big guy.

Careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater though.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

for who? that's the key. That's the message Hillary could not convey.

How did she not convey it?

She repeated ad nauseum that she was in favor of affordable education, that she wanted to make college free for families making under a certain amount of money. If someone missed that talking point, they didn't actually do any research into the candidates at all.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by New Era

Community college. Lots of people are doing it. Learning is a life long endeavor and if you think you are too old for school you are only failing yourself.

Is not that easy in a small town or in a small ghetto. especially with technology going 100mph. If you're 40 and you lost your job in a small town, it's tough. it takes time. being called uneducated doesn't help.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Umm what? That is a massive over-generalization, don't you think?

Not an exact comparison but white voters put both Obama and Trump in the White House. The other demographics vote how they vote that did not change much over 3 election cycles. Trump got slightly better numbers from the latino vote versus Romney. Where Clinton ran into trouble is the black vote did not come out in the numbers she needed to make the difference. The point is if the white vote was indeed racist on such a scale some here are suggesting Romney would have been President.

Trump won white voters by a margin almost identical to that of Mitt Romney, who lost the popular vote to Barack Obama in 2012. White non-Hispanic voters preferred Trump over Clinton by 21 percentage points (58% to 37%), according to the exit poll conducted by Edison Research for the National Election Pool. Romney won whites by 20 percentage points in 2012 (59% to 39%).


Women supported Clinton over Trump by 54% to 42%. This is about the same as the Democratic advantage among women in 2012 (55% Obama vs. 44% Romney) and 2008 (56% Obama vs. 43% McCain).

By 53% to 41%, more men supported Trump than Clinton (the 12-point margin is identical to the margin by which women supported Clinton). The advantage for Trump among men is larger than the 7-point advantage Romney had in 2012 and much different than in 2008, when men preferred Obama over McCain by a single point. Trump’s performance among men is similar to that of George W. Bush in the 2004 and 2000 elections, where he won men by 11 points in each election.

The gender gap in presidential vote preference is among the widest in exit polls dating back to 1972. However, it is not dramatically higher than in some other recent elections, including the 2000 contest between Bush and Al Gore.
source

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

How did she not convey it?

She repeated ad nauseum that she was in favor of affordable education, that she wanted to make college free for families making under a certain amount of money. If someone missed that talking point, they didn't actually do any research into the candidates at all.

that's for kids, not the factory worker/electrician who wouldn't be under that certain amount of money.

and when people hear things like, that think quotas and affirmative action. It'll never get to me.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Trump was more reviled by the media than any other presidential candidate in living memory. The problem is so many people hate the mainstream media that their scorn for Trump only made him more popular.

Sorry, that's a crock. Trump got billions of dollars in free campaign advertising from the mass media. Jeff Zucker of CNN even admitted they made a huge mistake in providing coverage of Trump's campaign rallies and speeches, almost in their entirety. The mass media carried Trump to victory because of the over-exposure they gave him. In politics there is no such thing as negative publicity so long as you can control the frame used against your opponent. The media gave Trump the air time and then allowed him to control the frame used against his competition.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Um yup holy #### fire them both. That's horrifying.

Can't people just not like Obama? I mean, there are people like the above. Too many, really. But this is the problem right here. You can't mind-read, you can't imply that someone saying "Trump will fix the white house" is secretly thinking "because they'll kick the N-words out of there". That's a horrible thing to impute to someone.

... Besides, if the above is any indication, the people who are thinking that apparently have no problem brazenly saying so out loud. Good lord.

Give me a single reason, any single reason, why someone would have reason to complain about Michelle Obama as a first lady, or their daughters?

Because that was the conversation, that Melania--a woman with no real education to speak of, a woman who literally stole part of a speech from the current First Lady who they're complaining about--is going to be a vastly better First Lady than a woman who has been nothing but gracious and eloquent during her husband's presidency, in the face of unprecedented hatred and vitriol being spewed at her.

Again, you always go for the extreme view. I'm not saying that these people are trying to find a KKK meeting to join in on, or that they're going to join the Nazi party. But racism isn't a black or white issue, racism can be incredibly overt, or it can be subtle, in a way that the person doesn't even quite grasp how racist they're being.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Um yup holy #### fire them both. That's horrifying.

Can't people just not like Obama? I mean, there are people like the above. Too many, really. But this is the problem right here. You can't mind-read, you can't imply that someone saying "Trump will fix the white house" is secretly thinking "because they'll kick the N-words out of there". That's a horrible thing to impute to someone.

... Besides, if the above is any indication, the people who are thinking that apparently have no problem brazenly saying so out loud. Good lord.

I don't know, you might feel differently if you lived here. I'm not nearly as left leaning as Witty, nor am I likely as quick to call racism, but I've heard enough comments over the last 8 years from random people to know there is a lot of truth in what Witty is saying. Trump's birth certificate thing fueled a lot of those fires too.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Is not that easy in a small town or in a small ghetto. especially with technology going 100mph. If you're 40 and you lost your job in a small town, it's tough. it takes time. being called uneducated doesn't help.

Yet I see it happening every day. Middle aged people who went back to school in their 30's and 40's to better themselves. Starting at the community college and then transferring to a four year institution. Some of these people continue to graduate degrees as well, because they know they need that education to get ahead. People don't give up if you can show them value in achieving their goal. That is the problem right now. The narrative is that education doesn't have the value it once had and that student debt is crippling. It is just another way to make sure that those people who need to improve their lot in life have yet another excuse to not do the things they need to do.