[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I think the sad reality is not that they don't want to let the cat out of the bag, it's that this is the cat. This thin, poorly thought out plan, one that is also asking someone else to pay for 80% of it, is what they have so far.

I hate to say it, but despite the shady financing that went up north, this right now pales in comparison to what is being built in Edmonton.

Jesus Christ man - don't behave like an Edmontonian with that inferiority complex crap.

We are probably five years out from this project reaching the point of where Edmonton's rink is currently at. Five years ago, Edmonton was still planning to build a toilet bowl.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So is this the right location for a fieldhouse whose primary purpose will be to serve amateur sports? Seems to that parking and accessibility will be critical for such a facility. Youth sports teams aren't going to be taking public transit to their practices and games are they?

On that one slide it said there would be 1,500 parking spaces, that should be enough for amateur sports I would think.

[T@T]

Is it just me or does only 2500 parking spaces seem like a future nightmare.? Fans will be expected to become marbles in tin cans to get a game. even the ACC in Toronto has 13,000 spaces within a 5 minute walk and that's just a hockey arena.

The more I look at the project the worst I feel about it,it's ugly and there's no room for it.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

a panini maker?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

They would be required to have some parking. For routine fieldhouse use, what they will have will probably be largely sufficient. There just won't be enough for 19,000 hockey fans or 30,000 football fans to all drive down.

I hope so. Parking situation for a downtown arena is different than parking for youth sports with equipment needs etc. You would think such a facility is better suited to a location where you have more space.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by T@T

Is it just me or does only 2500 parking spaces seem like a future nightmare.? Fans will be expected to become marbles in tin cans to get a game. even the ACC in Toronto has 13,000 spaces within a 5 minute walk and that's just a hockey arena.

The more I look at the project the worst I feel about it,it's ugly and there's no room for it.

1500 according to the slides. And that is more parking than the Montreal Canadiens offer.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by T@T

Is it just me or does only 2500 parking spaces seem like a future nightmare.? Fans will be expected to become marbles in tin cans to get a game. even the ACC in Toronto has 13,000 spaces within a 5 minute walk and that's just a hockey arena.

The more I look at the project the worst I feel about it,it's ugly and there's no room for it.

The site will have 1,500 spots according to that one slide, but there will also be parking to the south, east, and across the river. If you want to drive you will probably have to either park and walk, or park and take the train.

Correct me if I am wrong but by the time the complex is up and running the green line should be close to (if not already) finished.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Benched

^ that. what the road work, especially if it includes fixing the bridge would cost....

yikes

That and remediation all need to be done anyway, with or without the project.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So is this the right location for a fieldhouse whose primary purpose will be to serve amateur sports? Seems to that parking and accessibility will be critical for such a facility. Youth sports teams aren't going to be taking public transit to their practices and games are they?

From the couple of amateur athletes I've spoken with this is one of the top reasons why the site is perfect.

A lot of them don't have a car so they appreciate a centrally located Fieldhouse with easy access to the pathway system and right off the C-Train line.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by shermanator

A day later, and this is just so disappointing. To me, it seems like the Flames know they are going to be in tough to get public money for an arena AND a football stadium, so they decided to jam the fieldhouse in on top of that to get $200 mil from the city (that the city doesn't actually have). It just feels clunky and thrown together.

Cities everywhere are tearing down their indoor multisport stadiums, and Calgary wants to build one? It just seems like backwards thinking, not forward thinking.

Personally, I'd be more willing to see public money to go towards a proper arena and proper football stadium than this monstrosity they came up with.

This is without even touching how absolutely unsuitable it is for soccer, save for maybe being part of a 2026 World Cup bid.

I agree that the multi-use aspect is regrettable, and the Flames will probably need to spend a lot of money to make sure it looks as little as a gym with bleachers as possible (and have zero bench seating). The renders looked awful, but I have faith the end result will look better. It really needs to be a professional looking stadium first, and a fieldhouse second to be worthwhile (though I appreciate why they are marketing the opposite way). Looks way too bush league right now.

As for soccer suitability, as long as they stick to the translucent roof, use the same (or better) turf as in BC Place with removable lines and print, and avoid the gymnasium looking cheap designs, this field house stadium will be perfect for the type of soccer the Flames want in the facility... MLS, Div 1A (if it takes off properly), National Team friendlies and 2026 WC (though they will likely have to lay natural grass temporarily for that).

You're right in that there is likely no way this will be right for NASL, USL-Pro, PDL, or anything like that, where 5-10k is the best you're going to get. Calgary will still need a facility like that, but that is a different conversation between UofC, ASA, CSA and the Province. Though if the Dinos are going to play there, maybe there will be a configuration that works after all.

Real grass or even hybrid grass would be nice, but just too pricey for this climate, especially when economics dictate sharing with football.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by craigwd

From the couple of amateur athletes I've spoken with this is one of the top reasons why the site is perfect.

A lot of them don't have a car so they appreciate a centrally located Fieldhouse with easy access to the pathway system and right off the C-Train line.

That is a good point.

Not to go all soccer dad here, but what about the 12 year old football/lacrosse/soccer team? Are they realistically going to take public transit, including their equipment etc? Don't think they will want to pay $20 to park either. I assume one of the intended uses is to host large youth tournaments etc. but I admittedly am a little new to the fieldhouse concept.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That is a good point.

Not to go all soccer dad here, but what about the 12 year old football/lacrosse/soccer team? Are they realistically going to take public transit, including their equipment etc? Don't think they will want to pay $20 to park either. I assume one of the intended uses is to host large youth tournaments etc. but I admittedly am a little new to the fieldhouse concept.

They should only charge parking on professional event nights. For the community rink and amateur facilities, they wouldn't charge parking.

[Robbob]

I don't think it will be an area were you go and then leave. They mentioned 20 restaurants and a number of shops in the area. If you assume the stadium will be were the greyhound station is now then within 600m they would have those said restaurants and shops. 600m is about the distance from the saddledome to the Vic C-train station. Who knows maybe a schanks downtown or new flames central goes down there as the go to sports watching venue close to the arena.

In regards to the parking, why not park downtown in any of the city lots for $2 and take the train a couple stops (or walk 15 mins). I don't know why people want a ton of parking around the actual arena when there is a ton of parking spots 15 minutes away. Currently people who park on the grounds have to either leave early or wait 15 -30 minutes to get out anyways. Ideally, for events, they would expand the free fare zone that one stop and people would probably be more then willing to park in heated parking lots in the core.

[polak]

Originally Posted by flambers

My biggest surprise, Flames seem to be in the preliminary stages of the project...

Could take years before they actually start......

I have to agree with this. I'm a fan of the idea and will be excited to see more accurate rendering of the finish product as I'm sure it will look much better than this. Building the two together does seem like the way to go.

But man, they're really at square 1 still. I can't believe after all those years of "soon" this is what we got. A "vision". Any company would fire the sh*t out of you if you took this long to present an idea. I'm assuming they didn't start out with this big concept and that's what caused the delay.

So what now?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Jesus Christ man - don't behave like an Edmontonian with that inferiority complex crap.

We are probably five years out from this project reaching the point of where Edmonton's rink is currently at. Five years ago, Edmonton was still planning to build a toilet bowl.

Lol, inferiority complex? Nice try.

Look, there's still a long way to go, but everything the Flames have shown so far is a sign that they are not very experienced/competent at this development business. They've already wasted half a decade to be at a point where they should've been 2-3 years ago. Talk to anyone in the industry and engaged with development/architecture, and they'll tell you what the Flames have showed is under-developed and thin on details, compared to the time they've had to work on this. You don't have to have a final rendering to see where the massive holes are.

It's not about inferiority complexes. It's about expecting better.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by polak

I have to agree with this. I'm a fan of the idea and will be excited to see more accurate rendering of the finish product as I'm sure it will look much better than this. Building the two together does seem like the way to go.

But man, they're really at square 1 still. I can't believe after all those years of "soon" this is what we got. A "vision". Any company would fire the sh*t out of you if you took this long to present an idea. I'm assuming they didn't start out with this big concept and that's what caused the delay.

So what now?

At the STH event King mentioned that he has a finished images of the older stand alone stadium before they bought the Stamps and decided to go with this concept. This probably coincides with the first rumored stadium announcement. I don't know if he is joking but he said he would show it to people if interested.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Very underwhelmed with all of the renders shown so far, especially considering how long KK and co have had to work on this. Also seems like they're treating the football stadium as an afterthought, a multi-use facility will look cheesy no matter how much money they pump into it

[Finger Cookin]

With regards to how preliminary or far along the proposal is, I did notice on the CalgaryNEXT site that the Financing Plan is assuming a construction start in 2017. Given that King said this could take three years from when ground is broken, and adding in a little buffer for negotiation and the project taking longer than expected, aiming for the Flames to be in the new arena for the preseason of 21-22, and the Stamps to be on the new field for 2022, seems realistic. Or maybe a tad optimistic.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Lol, inferiority complex? Nice try.

Look, there's still a long way to go, but everything the Flames have shown so far is a sign that they are not very experienced/competent at this development business. They've already wasted half a decade to be at a point where they should've been 2-3 years ago. Talk to anyone in the industry and engaged with development/architecture, and they'll tell you what the Flames have showed is under-developed and thin on details, compared to the time they've had to work on this. You don't have to have a final rendering to see where the massive holes are.

It's not about inferiority complexes. It's about expecting better.

Why do you keep parroting this claim that they should have been at this point 2-3 years ago?

As I and others have said, there was a complete reset on this process after the Flames acquired the Stampeders. Before that, they were looking at arena only and had no concern about replacing our ageing football stadium.

[RM14]

Once it is all settled and done, people will adapt to the new set-up and build a parking routine that works for them. I personally never drive to the game though so this doesn't affect me.

As for Bars and restaurants, Sun Alta has a major opportunity and maybe even West Hillhurst 19th street (with a pedestrian bridge) to add some pre-gameing places. It wouldn't be all the bad to use the existing restaurants on 8th ave, and take the train a few stops.