The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Don't be so foolish as to assume that not being convinced Winnipeg would be successful automatically means the same people are convinced Phoenix would.



Not sure how that is relevant to the real questions over Winnipeg's viability.

Precisely. I think both are bad options.

[Ring of Fire]

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You would think LA would have an NFL team if potential was just defined by population.

Are you suggesting that the NFL wouldn't absolutely love to have a team in LA?

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Hilarious that B&A thanks your post when the franchise has proven, for the past fifteen years, that is it not viable in the Arizona market on either side of the economic spectrum.

The team has never been in the conditions for it to succeed for the reasons tjinaz and Cowperson have listed.

Read sometime...

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

The team has never been in the conditions for it to succeed for the reasons tjinaz and Cowperson have listed.

Read sometime...

So...what is your solution wait 10 to 20 years until things change? By then there can be hundreds of millions of lost money to recover.The NHL is not going to wait Arizona has to prove they want a team now. Phoenix should get a AHL, IHL, or ECHL team and if you guys down south can show there is a market for hockey, then Im sure the NHL in ten or more years may come back and saddle up a team in the desert.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yeah, 'cause it hasn't already been said enough that this is not 1996.

Saying the team leaving again is virtually inevitable based on the fact that it didn't work fifteen years ago in completely different economic conditions is *clears throat* utterly moronic.

.

My argument had nothing to do with 1996. Those are your words.

Originally Posted by troutman

I take your point if the only measure of success is making bucks. I don't think that is why the Flames owners are involved.

I think Flames owners are very common in terms of motivation among their peers across all sports.

Generally, if they're common franchise owners, they would probably like to see their franchise increase in capital value through time and secondly, they would be okay with breaking even on cash flow.

The impetus of their displeasure in the 1990's and early 2000's was they were flatlining on franchise value IN THIS MARKET and cash flow losses were trending heavily to the negative, even with a younger lineup.

They said the issue was unsustainable unless something changed - their words - and the obvious threat was a sale of the franchise to an American location.

Outside observors at the time continually said Flames owners "couldn't afford to . . . . ." this and that, including signing certain players.

I said at the time that was a misconception, that Flames owners were in fact among the wealthiest ownership groups in the NHL and could easily write cheques to underwrite cash flow losses to the end of time. It was just a question of whether or not they would chose to do so and the obvious answer coming back was probably "no."

Nowadays, it's happy times again in terms of revenues and capital appreciation.

But I wouldn't necessarily annoint them with sainthood. They're practical men and I'm good with that.

You do need a saint in Winnipeg though. Eventually and inevitably.

Cowperson

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Are you suggesting that the NFL wouldn't absolutely love to have a team in LA?

Neither the Raiders or the Chargers could make money in SoCal and the league has been using the threat of moving teams to LA to get stadiums built all over the US for free.

The second largest market in the US would have a team if any one thought it could make money, the reason it doesn't is the city won't build a free stadium and the market won't cover the franchises cost.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Neither the Raiders or the Chargers could make money in SoCal and the league has been using the threat of moving teams to LA to get stadiums built all over the US for free.

So yes, you are actually suggesting that the NFL would not love to have a franchise in LA right now. Are you serious?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

So yes, you are actually suggesting that the NFL would not love to have a franchise in LA right now. Are you serious?

The NFL would love to have LA/Cali build it a stadium for free and then pay a team for the honour of playing there.
The city has so far had enough sense not to get sucked into that bottemless pit of welfare payments.

Currently the Vikings want/need a new stadium so they are using the LA threat to extort a building out of the Twin Cities.

[Scrollbar]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Don't be so foolish as to assume that not being convinced Winnipeg would be successful automatically means the same people are convinced Phoenix would.



Not sure how that is relevant to the real questions over Winnipeg's viability.

It's relevant because the team would be moving from Phoenix to Winnipeg. Seems simple enough, yes?

Phoenix is losing tens of millions each year, and Winnipeg has been forcasted by CBC to be in the middle of the pack for revenue. Seems like a good swap.

Unless your an anti winnipeg troll, of course.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Scrollbar

It's relevant because the team would be moving from Phoenix to Winnipeg. Seems simple enough, yes?

Maybe it seems simple because you're not actually understanding the point.

Whether a team is viable in Winnipeg is an independent point of whether or not a team is viable in Phoenix. They are not related. At all.

[afc wimbledon]

I can buy lower bowl scalped tickets to watch the Sharks play the Wings, a possibly epic series, for a couple of hundred bucks.

Nucks versus Preds, likely an epicly boring series, from the same agency 600 to 1000.

[tjinaz]

Nucks versus Preds, likely an epicly boring series, from the same agency 600 to 1000.

And they say Hockey wouldn't work in the South...

So...what is your solution wait 10 to 20 years until things change? By then there can be hundreds of millions of lost money to recover.The NHL is not going to wait Arizona has to prove they want a team now. Phoenix should get a AHL, IHL, or ECHL team and if you guys down south can show there is a market for hockey, then Im sure the NHL in ten or more years may come back and saddle up a team in the desert.

That is funny.... so you think the NHL just dropped the Coyotes in Phoenix and there had never been hockey there before?

Phoenix roadrunners (WHL to WHA) were the first professional sports team in Phoenix and played from 1967 - 77 in the same league as the Jets but did not join the NHL when the league disbanded. They appeared again as the Kings farm team from 1989 to 1996 at Veterans Memorial Collesium. The Phoenix Mustangs (WCHL) took over Veterans Memorial in 1997 when the Coyotes came to town and played there until the Coyotes moved from AWA to Glendale then they moved into AWA until 2005. In 2005 the return of the ECHL roadrunners team played in AWA from 2005 until 2009. So really there were two pro hockey teams in Phx from 1997 - 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Roadrunners_(WHA)

http://www.whahockey.com/whateams.html

http://www.whahockey.com/roadrunners.html

http://www.phoenixmustangs.com/Phoen...ry/history.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_RoadRunners

[Bluzman]

A lot of buzz about Atlanta to Winnipeg.



@RealKyper
Nick Kypreos

Told True North deal with #NHL already include contingency plan with #Thrashers in event last minute funds are found keeping #Coyotes in Pho


@kenwardskorner
Joey Kenward

Have heard from a few sources today saying it's pretty much done deal: Atlanta not Phoenix moving to Winnipeg. Announcement Friday. #NHL

[Badgers Nose]

This is all so silly.

Just expand to the Peg and QC and let the south have their teams. Put some expansion money into the bank to fund money losing teams that league will have to prop up.

$150 million x2 will keep the Coyotes and Thrashers in business for ages.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

This is all so silly.

Just expand to the Peg and QC and let the south have their teams. Put some expansion money into the bank to fund money losing teams that league will have to prop up.

$150 million x2 will keep the Coyotes and Thrashers in business for ages.

... why would the other teams want to forfeit the nice fat expansion fee check they'd be entitled to? That's $10,000,000.00 apiece they'd be throwing away to prop up some other guys business... doesn't make any sense.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

And they say Hockey wouldn't work in the South...

That's for the games in Vancouver. Games in Nashville you can get good seats for less than $100:

http://www.stubhub.com/nashville-pre...-2011-1053818/

[tjinaz]

Kinda figured but had to take my shot...

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

And they say Hockey wouldn't work in the South...



That is funny.... so you think the NHL just dropped the Coyotes in Phoenix and there had never been hockey there before?

Phoenix roadrunners (WHL to WHA) were the first professional sports team in Phoenix and played from 1967 - 77 in the same league as the Jets but did not join the NHL when the league disbanded. They appeared again as the Kings farm team from 1989 to 1996 at Veterans Memorial Collesium. The Phoenix Mustangs (WCHL) took over Veterans Memorial in 1997 when the Coyotes came to town and played there until the Coyotes moved from AWA to Glendale then they moved into AWA until 2005. In 2005 the return of the ECHL roadrunners team played in AWA from 2005 until 2009. So really there were two pro hockey teams in Phx from 1997 - 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Roadrunners_(WHA)

http://www.whahockey.com/whateams.html

http://www.whahockey.com/roadrunners.html

http://www.phoenixmustangs.com/Phoen...ry/history.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_RoadRunners

I never said Phoenix never had hockey before

I suggested removing the franchise and watch to see in time if there is a reasonable chance to give this city a second chance, obviously Atlanta wasn't.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

And they say Hockey wouldn't work in the South...



That is funny.... so you think the NHL just dropped the Coyotes in Phoenix and there had never been hockey there before?

Phoenix roadrunners (WHL to WHA) were the first professional sports team in Phoenix and played from 1967 - 77 in the same league as the Jets but did not join the NHL when the league disbanded. They appeared again as the Kings farm team from 1989 to 1996 at Veterans Memorial Collesium. The Phoenix Mustangs (WCHL) took over Veterans Memorial in 1997 when the Coyotes came to town and played there until the Coyotes moved from AWA to Glendale then they moved into AWA until 2005. In 2005 the return of the ECHL roadrunners team played in AWA from 2005 until 2009. So really there were two pro hockey teams in Phx from 1997 - 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Roadrunners_(WHA)

http://www.whahockey.com/whateams.html

http://www.whahockey.com/roadrunners.html

http://www.phoenixmustangs.com/Phoen...ry/history.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_RoadRunners

Good post as probably a lot here aren't familiar with Phoenix's hockey history.

The only rebuttal I have is, I guess Phoenix just isn't a major league hockey city, at least at this time.