Luge athlete killed in Whistler during training

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Russic

I'm not sure I completely agree with what CTV is doing here. I understand there is a whole over-arching debate about what the media should and should not cover, but this just seems like a bit much. Those pictures that accompany the video or quite graphic as well. I don't know ... feels wrong.

Yeah, it feels like they're going overboard with it a bit too much. Cover the story, throw a picture up of the kid from earlier in the run or something. That's good enough. Showing pictures of people practicing CPR with blood on the kid's face when we already know the outcome is in poor taste.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Yeah, OR he had not practiced on it much before compared to the Canadians or Americans. Just because you can write it down doesn't mean it's true. How can you possibly quantify that this is the "stupidest" track design of all time?

Four American lugers have commented that they have had trouble making it down in one piece since Wednesday. The top mens luger knocked himself out and Pierre Lueders flipped his bob. It's the fastest track with the greatest drop. All things considered,it doesn't seam to be the smartest track design of all time.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

It's interesting because I'm pretty good friends with a luge coach (who is at Whistler right now) and I remember him describing the Whistler course as challenging but never dangerous. Of course, with a sport such as luge, challenging will inevitably equate to dangerous.

Athletes are always getting better and track designers are tasked with making a course that meets the demands of the athletes. I honestly hold no blame for the designers of the course until I see further proof of negligence.

A track design that results in someone flying off of it into a steel pole is more than enough evidence. Add in the fact that many athletes have been very vocal with their concerns and it's a slam dunk.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by valo403

Umm, because not going down it means not participating in the olympics?? It's not the athletes responsibility to ensure that the track is safe, it's the designers responsibility. What a pathetic attempt to shift blame.

Actually it's not an attempt to shift blame. It is about talking about the risk involved with the sport. What's pathetic is people wanting to sue for every thing that happens in this world, without accounting in the risks involved with it.

Wow some people are taking what I'm saying too seriously. I'm not saying the luger is to blame, I'm not saying VANOC doesn't have some blame, what I'm saying is that when you play any sport there is a risk involved. It isn't like this is breaking news that the track is dangerous.

You can miss the games, or you can take your chances. I agree if I was an athlete I would be going down that track regardless because this is what I worked for but it doesn't mean I should blame everyone else if I get hurt or die from it.

I'm just glad most athletes understand that there are risks involved with a sport and you can't go suing people just because something bad happens. Something bad happens everyday!

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

It's interesting because I'm pretty good friends with a luge coach (who is at Whistler right now) and I remember him describing the Whistler course as challenging but never dangerous. Of course, with a sport such as luge, challenging will inevitably equate to dangerous.

Athletes are always getting better and track designers are tasked with making a course that meets the demands of the athletes. I honestly hold no blame for the designers of the course until I see further proof of negligence.

I understand they were trying to push the limits of the athletes, but this is too far.

They designed it to be difficult, then perhaps they should've had some fail-safes in there in case people crash.

With the amount of crashes, I'm thinking there has to be some sort of negligence in the design. It's not just one person losing control and dying. It's the best in the world that fail to make it through going at 90% since it's only training.

[Envitro]

So, you guys don't think that the IOC and the International Luge Federation had anything to do with approving the design of the course?

If they thought it was "deadly" or "dangerous" you don't think that they wouldn't have made them change it at any point in the design, build, or inspection process over the last 10 years?

[Coys1882]

How much control do these guys have over their luges/bobsleds speedwise? If they have the ability to slow it down or speed it up - is it possible this guy was over aggressive on what is a very fast and dangerous track?

Auto racing has deaths all the time and a lot of them occur on ovals - are the designers of those tracks liable?

[dj_patm]

Remember when that Bluejacket shot the puck out of play and killed that girl? It's the only time it's ever happend yet they still put up a net, wrecking the quality of the sightlines.

But is anyone going to complain? If the net can save one life then it's worth it.

If moving the track events to Calgary can save one life, is it not worth it?

[Envitro]

^ seriously don't see that happening. The logistics would be near impossible.

[Coys1882]

Is it the job of the athlete to race according to the track?
Is it the job of the designer to create a track safely for athletes so they can go 100% without risk?

I honestly know nothing about this sport and its culture. Anyone have any insight?

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by dj_patm

If moving the track events to Calgary can save one life, is it not worth it?

I'm just curious because I haven't constantly been watching the olympics so far. Has anyone actually mentioned moving the event to Calgary or is this wild internet speculation?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by JayP

Yeah, padding really wouldn't do much.

A lot of the damage comes from your organs crashing around in your body when you go from 140 km/h to 0 km/h in a split second. The same thing happens with car accidents.

Padding would result in a greatly reduced deceleration curve (longer time frame) and make a huge difference. And it also not only about the deceleration, but blunt force impact on the body, which for example an airbag in a car helps to offset. (among other things)

Either way, the fact that absolutely NO safely features were in place to prevent an off track incident like this is inexcusable. Having solid, unprotected pillars right next to the track is beyond stupid.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Envitro

So, you guys don't think that the IOC and the International Luge Federation had anything to do with approving the design of the course?

If they thought it was "deadly" or "dangerous" you don't think that they wouldn't have made them change it at any point in the design, build, or inspection process over the last 10 years?

Models and simulations only do so much. They're a starting point, and when something happens in a practical situation, you need to go back and re-analyze what went wrong.

When Canada trains on it, you think they were really pushing themselves 110% on that track with so much time left before the Olympics?

The thing is, on most other tracks, you can push yourself to your limit and not have to worry about getting killed. Someone else is going to feel like they're losing control, but push forward anyways to get that extra .004 seconds and then get themselves killed.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I'm just curious because I haven't constantly been watching the olympics so far. Has anyone actually mentioned moving the event to Calgary or is this wild internet speculation?

Wild Internet speculation based on the fact that we are the backup course and training has been suspended.

I have not heard anything on CTV.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Is it the job of the athlete to race according to the track?
Is it the job of the designer to create a track safely for athletes so they can go 100% without risk?

I honestly know nothing about this sport and its culture. Anyone have any insight?

Yeah, actually I'd like to know the answer to this too. My post assumes it's more of the latter.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Watching that video was pretty gruesome.

They could raise the height of the barrier where Nodar, RIP, flew over, that might mitigate the seriousness of other accidents.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Envitro

So, you guys don't think that the IOC and the International Luge Federation had anything to do with approving the design of the course?

If they thought it was "deadly" or "dangerous" you don't think that they wouldn't have made them change it at any point in the design, build, or inspection process over the last 10 years?

Questions that need to be answered. But common sense (never mind any engineering considerations) tell you that putting angular, solid pillars right next to the track is not a good idea.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

How much control do these guys have over their luges/bobsleds speedwise? If they have the ability to slow it down or speed it up - is it possible this guy was over aggressive on what is a very fast and dangerous track?

Auto racing has deaths all the time and a lot of them occur on ovals - are the designers of those tracks liable?

Tough to compare. These things have no brakes or throttle to slow you down, just gravity. It is as simple as getting down the track full speed. Basically the winner is the person that navigates corners the cleanest. Thousandths of seconds could separate 1st from 4th. So the athlete can't be to blame for this as much as the design of the track as the "expectation" is full tilt start to finish. There should not be a giant steel beam or 10 there to catch you if you make an error. Its is simply a bad design.

[HOOT]

Live News conference right now on CTV...

[dj_patm]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

I'm just curious because I haven't constantly been watching the olympics so far. Has anyone actually mentioned moving the event to Calgary or is this wild internet speculation?

Just wild internet speculation. Which is unfortunate.
Would the logistics be that bad? Calgary is a days drive away. The track is perfect. Doesn't need to be touched at all as its used regularly in World Championship events.

Drive the athletes in, equipment in and camera crews in. All the infrastructure is ready to go. Booking the athletes hotel rooms would be the toughest part but after that is there anything left?