Raptors 2009 offseason thread

[Gozer]

Most fans, this may or may not apply to you Johnny, are happy with this trade because its much better than a 'straight signing.' I don't dispute that, but I still question if its a good move.

One NBA calibre guard, no legit shooting guard (Wright maybe, don't know his game), limited athleticism at the forwards and no centre. Maybe adding Rasho and Delfino/Barnes relieves some of that, but as of today I remain unimpressed with BC's roster composition and asset management.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

I'm not impressed but relieved that we have a semblance of a bench now. We have some athleticism at the guard spots with Wright and De Ro, but our line up looks like a run and gun type. I think those teams are entertaining but come up short in the end. I am rehashing one of my previous posts with that, but it needs to be reiterated.

Let's see what BC does with his trade exceptions.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Heck I've been reading versions of BC is God posts for hours over on the Raps version of CP.

Just because Raptor fans are insane doesn't mean that Coangelo is a great GM.

This was an okay deal adding a decent player that doesn't really fit with what the Raptors need, but because Raptors fans need anything to cling to at this point it isn't surprising to see many overreact.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I think I'll just let you wallow in your misery. You are the ONLY Rap fan on the planet not happy with this deal. IF you want to be Debbie Downer on a day like this go for it. I'm going back to conversing with real Raps fans--we are pretty excited about a great deal(you know by the NBA executive of the year in 2005 who built a great Suns team). But hey he has only done one good trade--comical.

No way is it a great deal and who cares how many awards BC won in the past, they have nothing to do with the team that he has put together here.

Originally Posted by I wanna be like Miikka

I like the way this lineup looks for this year. Beyond that though I think the Raps are in big trouble, if they keep Bosh all year then the Raps MIGHT make it to the 2nd round but over the summer Bosh is gone for nothing.

The Raptors will need a miracle to make the second round this upcoming season and a whole lot of luck (injuries to other teams) just to make the play-offs.

Their starters are about as soft as you can get with 1 guy being an average defender and the others being below to bad defenders. I know Raptors fans like to talk about bringing in "tough" guys like Evans off the bench but I am not sure that helps for the 75% of the time you are allowing the other team easy baskets.

Hedo isn't a bad addition but he is nowhere close to the great addition or the type of player that makes them close to the Boston, Cleveland, Orlando or even Chicago's of the Eastern Conference.

[bluejays]

I hate to agree with you moon, but when you do take a step back, this is definitely not a championship team, but a solid Eastern Conference team. Somebody on here alluded to the comparison to last years Magic, and I'd have to agree. I actually think they're better. It's just not a team that can win it all, but a definite threat IMO to get past the second round, and that's a step in the right direction.

[Da_Chief]

Moon, you have to be the most negative fan around here. Hopefully you're real life isn't like it. Lighten up

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Raps officially sign DeRo...

http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/dero...ns_070909.html

[moon]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Moon, you have to be the most negative fan around here. Hopefully you're real life isn't like it. Lighten up

I am not a fan of the Raptors, have been accused of making up too many excuses for the Flames at times on the main board and Sylvan Fan can attest to my love of my favorite baseball guy (Pujols) and team (Cards).

Not sure how that makes me a negative fan.

Plus I am happy all the time so no need to lighten up.

[I wanna be like Miikka]

Originally Posted by moon

I am not a fan of the Raptors, have been accused of making up too many excuses for the Flames at times on the main board and Sylvan Fan can attest to my love of my favorite baseball guy (Pujols) and team (Cards).

Not sure how that makes me a negative fan.

Plus I am happy all the time so no need to lighten up.

I think he gets that impression because you spend most your time hating other teams (Raptors, Lakers, Jays, Hitmen, etc) compared to posting about the guys you do like!

[moon]

Originally Posted by I wanna be like Miikka

I think he gets that impression because you spend most your time hating other teams (Raptors, Lakers, Jays, Hitmen, etc) compared to posting about the guys you do like!

I spend more time posting about the Flames then all those teams combined, so really posting more positive than negative!

I guess because those are the main teams here most, if not all, posters would spend time posting about them. I have posted about the Cards in the past but there isn't much talk here about them so I guess it doesn't stand out much.

I am also not sure how I am "hating" on the Raptors or Jays when I point out opinions that are different from what their fans think. Considering their records since I have been a member here it isn't crazy to think that there are some negative things to say about each one. And in this case I am not "hating" on the Raptors just pointing out that this deal isn't great for the Raptors and they still have a long way to go.

Finally, I don't hate on the Lakers, just Kobe. I love Shaq and respect Phil so I was happy for the Lakers when Shaq carried them to 3 titles.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by moon

I spend more time posting about the Flames then all those teams combined, so really posting more positive than negative!

I guess because those are the main teams here most, if not all, posters would spend time posting about them. I have posted about the Cards in the past but there isn't much talk here about them so I guess it doesn't stand out much.

I am also not sure how I am "hating" on the Raptors or Jays when I point out opinions that are different from what their fans think. Considering their records since I have been a member here it isn't crazy to think that there are some negative things to say about each one. And in this case I am not "hating" on the Raptors just pointing out that this deal isn't great for the Raptors and they still have a long way to go.

Finally, I don't hate on the Lakers, just Kobe. I love Shaq and respect Phil so I was happy for the Lakers when Shaq carried them to 3 titles.

Yep not a good deal at all. All it got them was six players for one. Yep SIX. They would have had to renounce Parker, Delfino and Pops(plus Marion) with no S&T. plus would have lost the MLE and LLE. Parker still hasn't inked with Cleveland and they have his bird rights. They could sign Parker, Delfino, Pops, Rasho(LLE, and say Jarret Jack or Kleiza(MLE). BC said this morning they are going to spend right up to the luxury tax meaning they still have 12 million bucks to spend. His phone is going to be ringing off the hook. IN fact he can split the MLE 60/40 and acquire two players so it could be seven for one.

They went from a team that would literally be forced to fill the roster with vet minimum players to a team that can sign any of their own free agents they care to and with the ability to sign three more players. There are a ton of free agents out there who aren't getting a sniff as so many teams have no cash whatsover. Raps have 12 million bucks.

Not realizing the implications of this deal is beyond silly. Couldn't be much more dramatic to anyone who has even the foggiest notion of how free agency/exemptions/capspace work in the NBA. They could very, very easily add five or six more players because of this deal and some of you think it's a so so deal. Hilarious.

[Suave]

So this is what the Raptors lineup might look like on opening day. They have 3 roster sports open and are $12 million under the tax level thanks to the trade along with MLE and LLE. Guys in italics are possibilities

PG: Jose Calderon, Roko Ukic, Marcus Banks, Quincy Douby
SG: Antoine Wright, Carlos Delfino, DeMar DeRozan,
SF: Hedo Turkoglu, Linas Kleiza, Devean George
PF: Chris Bosh, Reggie Evans,
C: Andrea Bargnani, Rasho Nesterovic, Patrick O’Bryant

I think it is an improvement over last year and they can challenge for a playoff spot. They are not going to go from pretenders to contenders in one off-season.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Suave

So this is what the Raptors lineup might look like on opening day. They have 3 roster sports open and are $12 million under the tax level thanks to the trade along with MLE and LLE. Guys in italics are possibilities

PG: Jose Calderon, Roko Ukic, Marcus Banks, Quincy Douby
SG: Antoine Wright, Carlos Delfino, DeMar DeRozan,
SF: Hedo Turkoglu, Linas Kleiza, Devean George
PF: Chris Bosh, Reggie Evans,
C: Andrea Bargnani, Rasho Nesterovic, Patrick O’Bryant

I think it is an improvement over last year and they can challenge for a playoff spot. They are not going to go from pretenders to contenders in one off-season.

Wright won't be the starter at SG. Chuckfino will be or they will even go with a pattern used a lot these days with DD starting but not playing the most minutes. Get's him used to playing with starters yet he is relied on to do very little but slash, rebound and play defense. In other words use his athletic talents which are considerable. BC talked about Rasho again today and I don't think he even needs the italics. AB's defense is improving but no way he can line up against Howard or Shaq and do anything but get owned. Wright did a good job with the Mavs as their sixth man and that would be a good role for him with the Raps.

Kleiza to me makes a lot of sense because he can play the 3 or the 4. Delfino can play the 2 or the 1. Wright can backup 2 or the 3.

They can waive Douby--his contract is only partially guaranteed as well. Or trade him for another piece.

The nice thing about Delfino and Turk is they are both very capable of running the offense. So in that regard they don't really need to go out and get a guy like Jack. But Jack would be so good at the backup PG spot and he and Bosh are the best of buddies so that makes sense on a bunch of levels.

They could also go after Childress, Sessions, Felton or Robinson. Plus Von Wafer and Matt Barnes. They could do a one year deal with the likes of Grant Hill. They could go after Lee or or Marvin Williams.

They can offer in addition to the MLE the prospect of playing time to many of these players so they can showcase their talent and hope to get a bigger contract next year. Of course with the likes of Felton, Jack and Lee their teams likely just match but the possibilities are sure out there.

If you cancel out injuries last year you come down to that they as usual could score points. Couldn't play a lick of defense, horrible rebounding and a brutal bench.

Rasho adds defense, Evans adds defense, Wright adds defense, Delfino adds defense. The bench will be solid. They got a good defensive coach added in Iavaroni. They aren't going to contending status but they could easily make the move to one of those teams you don't want to face in the playoffs. They will present a ton of matchup problems and IF they can add solid defense they will be very much improved.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Not realizing the implications of this deal is beyond silly. Couldn't be much more dramatic to anyone who has even the foggiest notion of how free agency/exemptions/capspace work in the NBA. They could very, very easily add five or six more players because of this deal and some of you think it's a so so deal. Hilarious.

The manner in which they acquired Hedo was great, but that doesn't make adding Hedo a great move.

Surely you can tell the difference.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

They can waive Douby--his contract is only partially guaranteed as well. Or trade him for another piece.

Douby was part of the trade, he's gone.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

If you cancel out injuries last year you come down to that they as usual could score points. Couldn't play a lick of defense, horrible rebounding and a brutal bench.

Lousy defense and rebounding seems to be Coangelo's hallmark.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Rasho adds defense, Evans adds defense, Wright adds defense, Delfino adds defense.

But the starting lineup will continue to be putrid defensively.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

...one of those teams you don't want to face in the playoffs.

Really? Teams that are poor at defense and rebounding are usually preferred playoff matchups.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

They will present a ton of matchup problems ...

Legitimate playoff teams do not fear perimeter shooting.

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

...IF they can add solid defense they will be very much improved.

I agree. I just don't see it happening.

[JohnnyFlame]

[quote=Gozer;1931340]Douby was part of the trade, he's gone.


Try paying attention. Douby was not traded in the deal.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Try paying attention. Douby was not traded in the deal.

It was according the the Hoopsworld.com article I read, try dialing down the condescension there pal.

The Grizzlies end up with Jerry Stackhouse and Quincy Douby along with an expected $3 million in cash from Dallas

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13241

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Gozer

It was according the the Hoopsworld.com article I read, try dialing down the condescension there pal.

Yeah, that was the original plan but apparently Douby couldn't be included because the Raps had acquired him so recently. So Jawai is going instead.

I liked the idea of Turkoglu but hated the original (UFA) signing, but now that it's been rolled into this deal, I like it a lot. I really like the flexibility that they have in terms of the number of starters who can play different positions and roles, which will make it easier to swap defenders in off the bench to deal with the other team's key offensive threats. Whether that dynamic materializes on the court remains to be seen, though.

[moon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Yep not a good deal at all. All it got them was six players for one.

Who said it was a bad deal?

[Suave]

The Raptors have signed Jarrett Jack to a 4 year offer sheet. Now waiting to see if Indian matches. The Pacers are having financial difficulties so that might affect their decision.

I think Jack would be a great back-up PG or he could even play the 2. Though at the 2 he doesn’t really help out with their defensive and rebounding problems. On the plus side he is friends with Bosh from their GT days.

[Da_Chief]

Another move to make crappy bosh happy. Just trade the damn guy and get couple of good players instead of one over-rated turd.