I've lost all sympathy for street people

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by sadora

Amen brother!

Honestly, I don't care if I sound like an ass ranting about "these lower than human species" because these homeless bums are a problem, especially when there is so much work out there.

I'm glad you don't care about sounding like an ass, because that's exactly what you come across as.

No one single person or single group of people are "lower than human species." Give me a break. A human being is a human being. Some of us are are in better positions that others, but being in a worse position does not make anyone sub human.

In general, I have been pretty shocked with some of the ignorant comments in this thread. I would have thought the collective liberalism and intelligence on CP to be higher than what has been demonstrated by some posters thoughout this discussion.

Fact of the matter is, that if some guy comes up to you and asks you for change, it is not him that is frustrating you, you are frustrating yourself. Everyone here has the ability to choose how they react to a certain situation. The fact that you get frustrated and annoyed by homeless people to me shows more insight into who you are than anything else.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

I'm glad you don't care about sounding like an ass, because that's exactly what you come across as.

No one single person or single group of people are "lower than human species." Give me a break. A human being is a human being. Some of us are are in better positions that others, but being in a worse position does not make anyone sub human.

In general, I have been pretty shocked with some of the ignorant comments in this thread. I would have thought the collective liberalism and intelligence on CP to be higher than what has been demonstrated by some posters thoughout this discussion.

Fact of the matter is, that if some guy comes up to you and asks you for change, it is not him that is frustrating you, you are frustrating yourself. Everyone here has the ability to choose how they react to a certain situation. The fact that you get frustrated and annoyed by homeless people to me shows more insight into who you are than anything else.

well said. Maybe it's just because I don't live downtown, but I can't bring myself to hate anyone that I don't know personally.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by flameswin

well said. Maybe it's just because I don't live downtown, but I can't bring myself to hate anyone that I don't know personally.

Weak. I hate Hasek and I've never met him.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Honestly, I kinda snickered at your post.

My question now is How is happycalgary only offended by the job stealing immigrant part, but the gather every poor person and take them to Africa to blow them up didn't faze him at all...

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by DESS

It's ill-informed opinions like this that are part of the problem IMO. There is plenty of cheap housing in Calgary. In a two second Google search I found rooms for rent for $375 - in Brentwood no less! I imagine Dover, Forest Lawn, etc. would have even cheaper places. Absolutely anybody (with the exception of severe mental cases) could make that in a week in Calgary. Housing is expensive? Untrue. Add to that some of the highest wages in the country and people who are not lazy should have no problem covering their basic shelter needs.

Wow.

I take it you live in a nice house and have a swanky job downtown in a oil or oil-related industry then? I'm not talking about people in oil specifically, I'm talking about all affluent people in Calgary, and they're a dime a dozen.

$375 to you is obviously peanuts. What about someone who doesn't have anything and can't make more than minimum wage? What if they have children to support? What if they need medication (and by all accounts, the homeless are plauged with this problem)?

It is so...SO easy to say what you just said. Why don't you live on the street and suddenly change your life around in the blink of an eye?

My god, it's people with your opinion that are exactly the problem as to why there is so much angst against them.

Let me guess - you would have more compassion for the homeless if it was a starving mother in sub-saharan Africa, right? Poverty is poverty, and it must be addressed. Public, private, mixed solutions - doesn't matter. These people need a helping hand, not a kick while they're down.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Weak. I hate Hasek and I've never met him.

Although I think it's completely moronic to hate Hasek because I personally don't think you know enough about him to hate, there is a difference between hating someone you know quite a bit about than someone you know nothing about.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Although I think it's completely moronic to hate Hasek because I personally don't think you know enough about him to hate, there is a difference between hating someone you know quite a bit about than someone you know nothing about.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

[peter12]

Normally I have pretty guarded sympathy for street people. This comes from about 10 years volunteering at places like the Mustard Seed and Inn from the Cold. Certainly, you see a lot of really sad cases. Single moms with kids struggling to make ends meet and the mentally ill are all pretty much helpless in the face of their own situation. However, there are BUMS. Mostly young guys who enjoy the "freedom" and lifestyle of living on the street. Most are casual substance abusers and are just lazy. I listened to a group of young guys bragging how they all slept in until 5:00 every night in some guys backyard over the course of the summer.

However, on days like today, my heart aches in complete sympathy for any poor soul without a secure warm place to sleep at night. Sure, there are shelters, but you have to wait in line without the certainty you are going to get a spot. If you miss out you've got to hike over to one of the other shelters around town. Not fun.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by peter12

However, on days like today, my heart aches in complete sympathy for any poor soul without a secure warm place to sleep at night. Sure, there are shelters, but you have to wait in line without the certainty you are going to get a spot. If you miss out you've got to hike over to one of the other shelters around town. Not fun.

How can someone survive outside on a day like today? Or even worse, Sunday through most of this week? How many will die out in the cold that we never hear about?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

How can someone survive outside on a day like today? Or even worse, Sunday through most of this week? How many will die out in the cold that we never hear about?

Probably none. We do have shelters and they will open their doors to anyone that comes.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Wow.

I take it you live in a nice house and have a swanky job downtown in a oil or oil-related industry then? I'm not talking about people in oil specifically, I'm talking about all affluent people in Calgary, and they're a dime a dozen.

$375 to you is obviously peanuts. What about someone who doesn't have anything and can't make more than minimum wage? What if they have children to support? What if they need medication (and by all accounts, the homeless are plauged with this problem)?

It is so...SO easy to say what you just said. Why don't you live on the street and suddenly change your life around in the blink of an eye?

My god, it's people with your opinion that are exactly the problem as to why there is so much angst against them.

Let me guess - you would have more compassion for the homeless if it was a starving mother in sub-saharan Africa, right? Poverty is poverty, and it must be addressed. Public, private, mixed solutions - doesn't matter. These people need a helping hand, not a kick while they're down.

WTF are you talking about? I didn't say it was peanuts, I said it could be earned by anybody in Calgary in one week. This is based on crappy jobs available in the industrial areas for $14/hour minimum - most will hire any warm body for $17/hour not to mention Labour Ready and other placement groups that can't even come close meeting the demand for labourers that pay $12/hour cash at the end of each day.

And you're saying "what if they have children to support?" Hmmm, maybe that's why they should get a job ... or is it your feeling that they make more by huddling in a shelter and then rolling out a sleeping bag in a doorway at the end of the day? Is that a better way to support their kids than working? News to me.

A helping hand is a job, not a quarter. You know, teach a man to fish...

[flamesfever]

I recall the Herald doing a feature article on the street people in Calgary back in the early 80's and IIRC it said they included people with addictions, chronically unemployed youth, and recently released mental patients.

This was in hard times, just after the Liberals announced the NEP, and there weren't that many jobs available. Probably many of those youth could find jobs today, however some may choose not the work, for whatever reason - mentally challenged, poorly educated, socially withdrawn, addicted to alcohol and/or drugs or just plain lazy.

As for the people with mental illness, they used to be institutionalized until the government felt they were better off on the street. Probably movies like "One Flew Over the ####oo's Nest" helped them make their decision.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by DESS

WTF are you talking about? I didn't say it was peanuts, I said it could be earned by anybody in Calgary in one week. This is based on crappy jobs available in the industrial areas for $14/hour minimum - most will hire any warm body for $17/hour not to mention Labour Ready and other placement groups that can't even come close meeting the demand for labourers that pay $12/hour cash at the end of each day.

And you're saying "what if they have children to support?" Hmmm, maybe that's why they should get a job ... or is it your feeling that they make more by huddling in a shelter and then rolling out a sleeping bag in a doorway at the end of the day? Is that a better way to support their kids than working? News to me.

A helping hand is a job, not a quarter. You know, teach a man to fish...

Again, you're just proving my point. It is so...SO easy to say that when you don't suffer from the same problems that they do. You can target your words to the few who are actually choosing to be lazy and hapless, but you're completely ignoring the complex situations that most homeless people are involved in.

I'm thinking the conservative legacy in this province is a contributing factor to to the lack of help given to the homeless. The lack of programs and subsidies has left these people in a vicious cycle.

Teach a man to fish? Then give him a damn fishing rod. That's the real Canadian way.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Again, you're just proving my point. It is so...SO easy to say that when you don't suffer from the same problems that they do. You can target your words to the few who are actually choosing to be lazy and hapless, but you're completely ignoring the complex situations that most homeless people are involved in.

I'm thinking the conservative legacy in this province is a contributing factor to to the lack of help given to the homeless. The lack of programs and subsidies has left these people in a vicious cycle.

Teach a man to fish? Then give him a damn fishing rod. That's the real Canadian way.

Why does the Canadian way always have to assume some role of dependency to the government?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by peter12

Why does the Canadian way always have to assume some role of dependency to the government?

Because the American way of not giving anything doesn't work either.

To be far, neither way is truly effective. Innovative solutions (such as the one in New York) are.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Teach a man to fish? Then give him a damn fishing rod. That's the real Canadian way.

Actually, by offering somebody a job - which as the OP is what I was talking about in this thread - I believe I am offering more help than giving a hand out. My problem is these people don't want jobs, they want handouts which coincides nicely with your philosophy apparently.

[urban1]

Many people live pay check to pay check with little to no savings and some debt.

Unexpected events happen frequently. Illness or an accident can cause you to not be able to work - miss a few weeks at work and if you have no benefits (short-term disability, paid sick leave, etc.) and you wont have a pay check coming in. The bills start piling up and soon you have no money, your credit cards are maxed, and the rent is past due. Not everyone has friends or family to rely on in times of need.

Theres a lot of people who are just a little bad luck away from being homeless and they dont even realize it.

Once your out on the street, I cant imagine how hard it is to get back into "normal" society again. How many people here would hire someone who doesnt have a phone number and doesnt have an address?
If youre out on the street, you cant shower and shave every day. You cant wash your clothes and change into clean clothes everyday.

Sure theres social programs but theyre stretched and they wont get you a home and a job instantly.

Just try to imagine how hard it is for someone to be out on the streets thats never been out on the streets before - never had to pick bottles to get money for a coffee and some food - never had to beg for money on the street - never had to sleep in a homeless shelter full of people with mental illness, addiction, and just plain unsavoury characters.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by urban1

Many people live pay check to pay check with little to no savings and some debt.

Unexpected events happen frequently. Illness or an accident can cause you to not be able to work - miss a few weeks at work and if you have no benefits (short-term disability, paid sick leave, etc.) and you wont have a pay check coming in. The bills start piling up and soon you have no money, your credit cards are maxed, and the rent is past due. Not everyone has friends or family to rely on in times of need.

Theres a lot of people who are just a little bad luck away from being homeless and they dont even realize it.

Once your out on the street, I cant imagine how hard it is to get back into "normal" society again. How many people here would hire someone who doesnt have a phone number and doesnt have an address? If youre out on the street, you cant shower and shave every day. You cant wash your clothes and change into clean clothes everyday.

Sure theres social programs but theyre stretched and they wont get you a home and a job instantly.

Just try to imagine how hard it is for someone to be out on the streets thats never been out on the streets before - never had to pick bottles to get money for a coffee and some food - never had to beg for money on the street - never had to sleep in a homeless shelter full of people with mental illness, addiction, and just plain unsavoury characters.

You've seen too many movies if you think this is how it is going down in Calgary right now. To answer your question, pretty much any business in the Foothills Industrial Park would hire a guy like the one described above. I myself have offered many of them a job in the past year.

And you can get a job instantly if you want to work. In fact, I know somebody who manages a temp agency that goes to the Mustard Seed every morning trying to round up anybody that is willing to work because he has way more customers that need workers than people willing to work.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by urban1

How many people here would hire someone who doesnt have a phone number

I've seen this mentioned a couple of times in the thread, and just wanted to add my 2¢. The last time I faced a job loss that threatened my housing status, I went on social assistance for a few weeks. One of the services offered was a phone number. They would provide you with a number to give out- and that number would be answered by a receptionist that would say "Where can I direct your call?........ please wait and I'll give you his machine." This was back in the early 90's, I'm sure with new technology there's something similar today.

To me this is just one example of the fact that there are social services out there for the taking. The reason I only needed a few weeks of assistance was because I made use of the services provided, and used them to get myself back on my own 2 feet.

I think with some of the back and forth going on in this thread some people are missing the point of the OP and the people backing them- let's find a way to help the one subset of homeless people that should be the easiest to help; the ones without mental issues or addictions. ie- the "lazy" homeless people; let's get them back into the work force. Even if they only make up 20% of the homeless population, now we can focus our resources on those who need it most. So instead of social services trying to help those who are able to help themselves, let them deal with those who need our help.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by DESS

Actually, by offering somebody a job - which as the OP is what I was talking about in this thread - I believe I am offering more help than giving a hand out. My problem is these people don't want jobs, they want handouts which coincides nicely with your philosophy apparently.

I never voted for Klein or the PC's, and I considered the Ralph Bucks to be a huge mismanagement of public money.