U.N.: Israeli airstrike hits U.N. observer post

[Table 5]

interesting little map here...

http://maps.samidoun.org/lebanon_map_July12-30.jpg

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Table 5

interesting little map here...

http://maps.samidoun.org/lebanon_map_July12-30.jpg

Any 'map' that refers to Israel proper as 'occupied palestine'.... well I question the 'facts' on that.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Any 'map' that refers to Israel proper as 'occupied palestine'.... well I question the 'facts' on that.

No doubt. I read up on this Samidoun media team. I wouldn't trust them. They sound like a bunch of Hezbollah apologists.

[RedMan12]

I don't even know what to think about this whole situation. Both sides are wrong but for kidnapping 2 soilders, do all those civilians, who include alot of women and children really have to be bombed?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

No doubt. I read up on this Samidoun media team. I wouldn't trust them. They sound like a bunch of Hezbollah apologists.

http://www.samidoun.org/

Yes, sound like a bunch or real wingnuts! Jews and Arabs working together to get out what is happening? Whodathunk?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

http://www.samidoun.org/

Yes, sound like a bunch or real wingnuts! Jews and Arabs working together to get out what is happening? Whodathunk?

Don't see any mention of Jews on the front page. I do see an open letter by Naomi Klein. The page looks like a mouthpiece for the "Islamic Resistance". In other words, Hezbollah.

For those looking for a good, neutral third party analysis of the situation.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/17/lebano13748.htm

Here's a great Andrew Coyne piece.
http://andrewcoyne.com/2006/07/as-is...dissembles.php

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

Don't see any mention of Jews on the front page. I do see an open letter by Naomi Klein. The page looks like a mouthpiece for the "Islamic Resistance". In other words, Hezbollah.

Should have tried looking a little deeper than the front page. They have aricles from Gideon Levy (Haaretz), Eduardo Galeano (IPS), Marjorie Cohn (CommonDreams), and Alain Gresh (Le Monde), among others.

You know, you might be a better student of you didn't just look at the first page of the text and think you know what the subject matter is about. It's one thing to disagree with something written after you have read it, its another to disagree with something just because you don't like the dust jacket. Quit looking for articles that make you feel like you're right and start looking for articles that challenge your preconceptions.

BTW... Canadian Naomi Klein is Jewish.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Table 5

interesting little map here...

http://maps.samidoun.org/lebanon_map_July12-30.jpg

Interesting map for sure. Although I agree with White Doors about the "Occupied Palestine" title, it definitely shows the extent of Israel's attack.

Has anyone found (or looked for) a similar map showing Hezbollah / Hamas rocket attacks and suicide bomb locations? It would be just as interesting to see.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Should have tried looking a little deeper than the front page. They have aricles from Gideon Levy (Haaretz), Eduardo Galeano (IPS), Marjorie Cohn (CommonDreams), and Alain Gresh (Le Monde), among others.

You know, you might be a better student of you didn't just look at the first page of the text and think you know what the subject matter is about. It's one thing to disagree with something written after you have read it, its another to disagree with something just because you don't like the dust jacket. Quit looking for articles that make you feel like you're right and start looking for articles that challenge your preconceptions.

BTW... Canadian Naomi Klein is Jewish.

By "Jewish" I should have clarified... people who have a pro-Israeli outlook. That is what I assumed you meant. As for having the time to pore through an obviously biased website when I have better things to do, especially when I can tell the ideological perspective of it at a glance, is quite simply a waste of time. Klein's religious background may be Jewish but I'm not sure how that makes her perspective any different than any of the other apologists. By the way, Klein is an unabashed talking head of the extreme left.

As for preconceptions. I went through a very serious, rigourous left wing bent in my young life. I have knowledge from both sides of the fence. Part of having beliefs is having the need to reconcile real world events with those beliefs while taking others into account. No doubt this is one of the most important aspects of democratic debate. However, you have to be good at seperating the nuts from the rational. Maybe I've gotten cynical, maybe I'm just blind, but I think I've gotten very good at telling who isn't worth bothering with. I'm still not sure what I think about you. At times, you seem quite on the ball and you're knowledge keeps posters who are on the opposite side of things on their toes. At times you are a mindless idealogue, people don't deal with you and they instead they work around you. I'm not sure if you've noticed this here.

I enjoy your shots at my intelligence. If I'm talking about McGill as an option I might just be a better one than you think. I have an important summer internship and I just don't have a lot of time to engage in discussion other than drive-bys, which I'll admit aren't very good at times.

Edit: Lanny, did you even read the Human Rights Watch report?

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by peter12

Don't see any mention of Jews on the front page. I do see an open letter by Naomi Klein. The page looks like a mouthpiece for the "Islamic Resistance". In other words, Hezbollah.

For those looking for a good, neutral third party analysis of the situation.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/17/lebano13748.htm

Here's a great Andrew Coyne piece.
http://andrewcoyne.com/2006/07/as-is...dissembles.php

First I've heard great and Andrew Coyne in a sentence.

edit: pretty hilarious to talk about people using biased sources and you turning your nose up against them and then citing an andrew coyne article

In the end you read and consume what you idealogically pleases you. Nothing wrong with that I guess but it doesn't give you ground to make yourself out to be above petty idealogical squabbles.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

By "Jewish" I should have clarified... people who have a pro-Israeli outlook.

And if you had gone a little deeper you would have found what you were looking for.

That is what I assumed you meant. As for having the time to pore through an obviously biased website when I have better things to do, especially when I can tell the ideological perspective of it at a glance, is quite simply a waste of time.

Wow, you are good. It's those Kreskin-like abilities you have to look at a web site, you've never seen before, and immediately be able to tell how biased they are. Son, you're missing your call. You should forgo political science and go into media studies. You much better at media analysis than anyone I have ever seen.

Klein's religious background may be Jewish but I'm not sure how that makes her perspective any different than any of the other apologists. By the way, Klein is an unabashed talking head of the extreme left.

I've actually found Kelin to be very issue-centric. She takes a more humanistic approach to everything she does, which immediately brands her as god forsaken liberal (no! not a liberal!!!), but she usually presents a very good case for what ever cause she is defending.

And no, why would any JEW have a different perspective than anyone else? Gee, just look at any of the threads where Israel has been a factor and you'll see our Jewish contingent is quite vocal in the support of their side (that being the Jewish side). You don't think for a second that hew ethnicity comes into play at all? Oy vey, imagine what its like for her and Avi when they head to temple? Could they be more outcast?

As for preconceptions. I went through a very serious, rigourous left wing bent in my young life. I have knowledge from both sides of the fence. Part of having beliefs is having the need to reconcile real world events with those beliefs while taking others into account. No doubt this is one of the most important aspects of democratic debate. However, you have to be good at seperating the nuts from the rational. Maybe I've gotten cynical, maybe I'm just blind, but I think I've gotten very good at telling who isn't worth bothering with.

Yes, at 20 you're a fountain of knowledge and experience. What, you've voted once? In another year you'll be able to get a drink in Las Vegas? Yeah, you're just overflowing with knowledge and wisdom of the many years you've been in the real world and have worked in the meat grinder.

I'm still not sure what I think about you. At times, you seem quite on the ball and you're knowledge keeps posters who are on the opposite side of things on their toes. At times you are a mindless idealogue, people don't deal with you and they instead they work around you. I'm not sure if you've noticed this here.

And at times there are posters like you that come on make a bunch of noise, get steam rolled, then run away and hide for days at a time. There are also those who sit in the peanut gallery and take their shots here and there. So what. It's a debate. bring an opinion and be prepared to defend it.

I enjoy your shots at my intelligence. If I'm talking about McGill as an option I might just be a better one than you think. I have an important summer internship and I just don't have a lot of time to engage in discussion other than drive-bys, which I'll admit aren't very good at times.

Must be a very important summer internship. Seems you only post while you're supposed to be working. I honestly hope that you're thinking for a second that McGill will impress me. You're forgetting that President Dumb**** graduated from both Yale and Harvard. It's not where you go to school, its what you learn. I honestly hope that you go into the institution looking to learn, not just trying to get a piece of paper that will look good on your resume. You're obviously a kid with something on the ball (or I wouldn't engage you at all) so I honestly hope you put your intellect to good use. What ever you choose, go at it honestly and dedicate yourself to it.

Edit: Lanny, did you even read the Human Rights Watch report [sic]?

Yes. I've read it more than a few times. IIRC they tend to lean over toward the same side I'm one, that of the solution laying in the end of oppression toward Palestinians and Arabs. It's been a while since I read any of their stuff, but is that a fair assessment of their stuff?

[peter12]

Must be a very important summer internship. Seems you only post while you're supposed to be working. I honestly hope that you're thinking for a second that McGill will impress me. You're forgetting that President Dumb**** graduated from both Yale and Harvard. It's not where you go to school, its what you learn. I honestly hope that you go into the institution looking to learn, not just trying to get a piece of paper that will look good on your resume. You're obviously a kid with something on the ball (or I wouldn't engage you at all) so I honestly hope you put your intellect to good use. What ever you choose, go at it honestly and dedicate yourself to it.

Yeah, that's a very good point to be honest. It's like they say, good schools produce good applicants and not necessarily good graduates.
Everything you say is true, I won't argue with it. I am 20, I'd like to think I'm an "old" 20 but I'd be a fool not to understand that experience often breeds wisdom.

As for the internship, today is a very slow day. I was supposed to be writing a book report for my superiors (ie. everybody here) but the words really aren't flowing out onto the page.

Human Rights Watch is good. I feel they bring a balanced approach that organizations just Amnesty don't bring. I personally prefer the "thinkers" approach to policy critique instead of "feeling" your way through an issue.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Respected members? Kind of elevating yourself aren't you Azure? j/k

Right.

I was actually referring to CaptainCrunch.....

[blankall]

Originally Posted by peter12

Don't see any mention of Jews on the front page. I do see an open letter by Naomi Klein. The page looks like a mouthpiece for the "Islamic Resistance". In other words, Hezbollah.

For those looking for a good, neutral third party analysis of the situation.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/17/lebano13748.htm

Here's a great Andrew Coyne piece.
http://andrewcoyne.com/2006/07/as-is...dissembles.php

The Andrew Coyne piece obviously had a slant to it, but both were great reads. Very informative

[Azure]

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....ticle_id=74334

Moreover, the results show the majority of Lebanese believe the only way to liberate Lebanese detainees in Israeli prisons is through the capture of Israeli soldiers and a prisoner swap, as was the case in 2000.
The survey showed near-identical numbers as an earlier survey, published by As-Safir on March 2. That survey showed 70.9 percent support for Hizbullah operations to capture Israeli soldiers.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by home_sweet_dome

Wow, just absolutely freaking WOW. After reading your response as well as many of your other responses in political threads, all I can say is you are the absolute scum of the earth. You may as well be a freaking Jewish Hitler.

Israel gets S***loads of funding from the US. Heck, the neo-con wing of the US govt is gladly willing to sacrifice not only American money, but American blood too for the sake of Israel. What do you think one of the biggest reasons for the Iraq war was.

Don't bother responding as I will NEVER read any of your s*** again or ever respond to you again. Anything else I could possibly say to you would result in a ban, so I'll leave it at that.

Sorry I'm late getting to this guys. I absolutely hate these threads so I dont read them if I dont have to. I couldnt get onto the mail server to see reported posts before today.

Anyway, comments like this are WAY over the line and is not acceptable here.

We are all sick of having to constantly monitor these political/religious threads for personal attacks and name calling. The worst stuff said on CP is in OT. We don't want to censor you guys, you are all adults, so treat each other with some respect regardless of what you think about someone elses opinion.