Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
I thought your take was totally reasonable, even if someone might not agree with it. Not sure why it received such an emotion and combative reaction.
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When that poster led with "They're not as bad as people
want them to be", it came across as disparaging toward anyone who didn't agree with his views, rather than an attempt at level-headed conversation.
It's a disgusting thing to accuse people of WANTING the Flames to be bad. When I saw that I'm like what the hell, what's with the belittling tone and trying to provoke people? Then he goes on to say "maybe people will realize the rebuild started 2 years ago" like oh thanks, us dumb little people didn't realize that.
Then I saw his post get a huge amount of thanks and it ticked me off.
Acknowledging that the team is bad is not the same thing as wanting them to be bad. Two entirely different things.
Hoping the Flames get the best possible odds at McKenna is not the same thing as wanting them to be bad. It's also not the same thing as wanting the players to give less than their all trying to win games. It's about hoping they don't get the bounces going their way. It's about wanting hard-fought one-goal losses, with some wins sprinkled in here and there. That kind of hockey is good for draft positioning while at the same time good for the team's competitive culture.
That said, I never hope the Flames are bad. I always hope the Flames are good. If there was a way for them to be legit cup contenders every year and never have to rebuild, I'd be all in favor of that!! But unfortunately that's not the reality of the NHL. In this league, you need talent to contend for a cup. Flames have a number of nice young players, but we need to be realistic about their upside. Parekh has potential, but does he have Makar/Hughes potential? I don't know. Gridin has potential, but will be become an elite player or a good complimentary player? We don't know. Bahl has become a good top pairing guy, but does he have the potential to take another step? We don't know. Wolf was tremendous last season but seems to have taken a step back this season. Is it just a blip on the radar or a sign of possible regression? We don't know. Does Cooley have elite potential? We don't know. Ultimately I think this team has built a good foundation, but there's a lot more building that still needs to take place before any reasonable talk of being a good, or even decent team.
Look, I came into this season looking at the heater they finished off last season on. 11-2-3 in their final 16 games. 96 points, tied for the most ever by a team to miss. So I expected them to come into this season and once again fight hard to try and make the playoffs. Then I saw the 2-9-2 start and it changed my outlook on the season. I switched over to team McKenna, but that doesn't mean I wanted them to be bad. It was just an acknowledgement that they were a bad team, and there was no point in hanging on to this many vets for another run at a playoff spot. Moving vets for the best possible returns they would bring for the rebuild would be the best thing to do, and thankfully, that's what happened.
I want McKenna on this team badly. While it's true that there's 5 or 6 really good players at the top of the draft, to me McKenna is a step above the rest, which is why the odds at 1st overall mean so much to me. With the 3 game win streak, it looks like those odds are getting slimmer and slimmer. As for the "poof gone" comment, I was talking about the
situation the Flames were in, they were in 31st place with a bit of a cushion, and now suddenly not only is the cushion gone but they have jumped to 29th. That's all I meant by it. Didn't stop some posters from putting words in my mouth. That said, Chicago and NYR are also bad teams, they are going to lose a bunch of games too (STL in the mix as well). So no I don't think it's very likely that the Flames get back into 31st place (even though it's still possible).
If we don't get McKenna, fine, we will still get a very good player. But I'll still be a bit disappointed.
And all the talk about odds not mattering, sorry, I disagree. Tell any successful poker player that odds don't matter, and see what kind of reaction you get.
Anyways, getting back to that original post. His reasoning of why the Flames aren't that bad of a team didn't make sense. Elite goaltending... debatable, but for the sake of argument I'll grant you that. Up & coming elite defenseman... yes, Parekh is showing signs of growth and getting more accustomed to the NHL game with each passing game. But he's still got a ton more growth ahead of him and he's not anywhere close to elite right now. Just 2 points in his last 10 games. Numerous young 2nd and 3rd line forwards? Yes, ok, but what does that have to do with being a good team right now? It's more an outlook on how good the team could be in upcoming years. Gridin elite? While he's shown flashes of brilliance and elite potential, he's still a ways off from being an elite player.
Simply put - you're reading waaaaaaaaaay too much into a few games vs teams playing the 2nd half of back to backs and/or starting their backup goalies. This is not a sign of seeing results of a rebuild, nor is it a sign that the Flames are "not as bad as people want them to be".
I've seen this team go down the path of rushing a rebuild and throwing draft picks away like candy at the first sign of being somewhat competitive. That's what happened in response to being in the 2nd round in 2015. I have faith that Conny won't repeat mistakes that other GMs have made in the past. But it's frustrating to me to see some posters get all caught up in the idea that we're suddenly "not that bad" because we won a few games against tired teams.
TL/DR - the most important thing I want to convey is that I'm not disappointed in the team or anything they're doing. They're trying to win games, and that's what they're in the business of doing. I applaud that. My frustration has nothing to do with that. My frustration is in some of the not so good takes some of the posters here have been sharing. It's never fun when people get my position twisted and frame me as having views that I don't actually have. That's all.
