[PGT] Happy New Year! Flames defeat Flyers 5-1

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I just think that people who are running with the narrative that we have enough bullets in the chamber to build a contender in a few years are being extremely optimistic.

I don't think we're even close to that. If Reschny doesn't become a top 6 nhl center then you're back to guys in their late 30s as your best organizational centers.

We need to supplement the cupboards with at least a few more Reschny or higher caliber centers to even begin to think that we're set at the most key position for contention.

I don't think we're going to get away with contending with a 2/3C in your top slot while relying on wingers. I think we learned that lesson in the Jarome era.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Show your work.

My mistake, it seems. But there was a poster who was very vocally insisting on this a couple of weeks ago. Better, he said, to give away the players for nothing at all than to keep them and win games and risk not getting a top-3 pick.

User names with numbers in them are easy for me to mix up. My apologies for the error.

[Roko]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I just think that people who are running with the narrative that we have enough bullets in the chamber to build a contender in a few years are being extremely optimistic.

I don't think we're even close to that. If Reschny doesn't become a top 6 nhl center then you're back to guys in their late 30s as your best organizational centers.

We need to supplement the cupboards with at least a few more Reschny or higher caliber centers to even begin to think that we're set at the most key position for contention.

I don't think we're going to get away with contending with a 2/3C in your top slot while relying on wingers. I think we learned that lesson in the Jarome era.

Fully agree with you. We are allies here

[Locke]

Yeah...but what do you want us to do about it?

This team is supposed to suck. We cant out-suck teams with vast amounts of experience at it.

Frankly, 'more bullets in the chamber' is pretty much the best we can hope for and pray that we hit a home run or two.

If anything, rage away at the flawed drafting system. The teams it should be supporting are pretty much exactly the Calgary Flames. Teams that fight and claw and compete at every turn no matter what!

Not the teams that burn their rosters to the ground.

The Draft system is rewarding the wrong behaviour.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

In a way, the western conference is partly at fault.

It isnt the flames fault that teams with much better talent already in their organizations that were projected to be firmly in the playoffs are falling apart worse than the flames did in October.

That .500 at the turning of our calendars nearly puts you in a playoff berth says a lot.

In a year where they needed to suck relative to the rest of the pack, most of that pack decided to channel their best 2024 Sharks impression.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Sure, some...as idiots still and will always exist. I doubt those ideas would get a lot of support from anyone else who knows anything about hockey.

I'd be ecstatic if they traded all three veterans, but I think that it's only realistic to expect an Andersson trade, and that's because there's no chance of re-signing him in line with the team building process. I'd guess the chance of Coleman being traded is about 60% for a variety of reasons. I'd wager that Kadri is likely here for the duration of his contract, but does have a chance of being traded if the right situation opens up. That situation would be so specific that I would probably say he only has a 15-20% chance of being traded for any meaningful return.

Again, if people cheer for wins and are generally happy when the team wins, that's just a reflex that any Flame fan has in the moment. It doesn't mean they don't see the bigger picture or cannot tolerate short term pain for long term gain. Everyone accepted a bottom finish early in the year, but now the conversations change because it may not be possible to finish in the bottom given how well the team is doing. Being fluid in your approach to fandom seems like a healthy choice to me, rather than being overly rigid and not enjoying anything. Whatever they do as a team, try to find the positive angle on it.

The problem is, as it's been said a thousand times already, this is largely out of our control as fans. The team will play as well as they do and management will make the decisions they deem best. It's probably just my pseudo-stoic philosophy, but I try not to put much energy into things that I have zero control over. It's exhausting.

I appreciate where you're coming from. You have a clear plan based on analysis and what is likely to work long term. I like analysis and thoughtful planning, but as always, life is chaotic, and so I find it's best if you can roll with whatever is happening in real time rather than sticking to the plan completely.

^ I appreciate what you're saying here. But it's a long way off from...

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm calling it now.

This team is making the playoffs. Deal with it.

That post, especially the last part, seemed to strike a belittling, contemptuous tone toward team tank. And the post got 17 thanks & counting.

From that post, I take it you're fully on the make-playoffs train. How am I supposed to interpret it any other way? And if you want & expect the team to make the playoffs, how can you also be in favor of trading the 3 vets? The two positions don't seem compatible. Those 3 vets have played key roles in getting this team to within a few points of a playoff spot after the bad start. Remove those three (or heck, any two of them) from the lineup, and the team isn't likely to win many games.

Being fluid as a fan is a good thing. Being open to having your mind changed in response to changing dynamics and new evidence is a great thing. I started the year on team playoffs; I saw 2-9-2 and didn't think there was any coming back from it, so I switched to team tank. Now I see this climb back to .500 as a missed opportunity to draft a franchise altering player. Now the team will have to find a way to rebuild without drafting in the top 3 this year. It is what it is. I hope it works out.

This team may make the playoffs, sure. But they've been playing pressure-free hockey since most people in the hockey world wrote them off. Now that they're back in the race, the pressure is going to start to return. How they handle it will say a lot about the type of team they really are. I don't think they'll ultimately make it in, but being in the race might tempt Flames management to hang on to everyone including Andersson, resulting in yet another missed opportunity to secure quality futures. Hopefully you can understand why these kinds of things cause frustration for many fans.

Then again, like you said, us fans have no control over what happens. And spending too much time thinking about this stuff can get exhausting.

[GioforPM]

Cali's post wasn't belittling anyone. Anyone that see that is reading way too much into things.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Could have got something for him but of course the standard here is getting 8th place.. which they didn't do that year or last year. Poor Asset management because of this weird obsession of trying to do something they did 21 years ago.. i would get it if they had a cup run even 2-3 times since then.. but i think 2+ decades is enough time to move on, but they that's my opinion, clearly not Murrays.

Do you know how an expansion draft works? If they traded Gio, they would have to lose another, younger player for nothing. One player leaves for nothing either way. And trading him before an expansion draft doesn’t really work the same, as then whoever you’re trading him to risks losing either him or another player that he’d replace for nothing.

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Fans got nothing.
Teams got nothing.
Owners got tens of millions.

It ain’t about you or the team. It’s about money.

No, it’s about assets. As in, that’s what we’re talking about.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Cali's post wasn't belittling anyone. Anyone that see that is reading way too much into things.

People who regularly misinterpret straightforward, unambiguous comments should not start playing around with assuming intent or subtext. Think of the word count that’d be saved if they just asked what the person meant.

[Reggie Dunlop]

The Flyers’ black nameplates with white lettering bug the hell out me.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Don't waste your breath. Most here don't want to hear anything about sacrificing some wins in the short term to become a contender 3-4 years down the road. They see a good stretch of hockey and suddenly think we're the 2019 Blues. (Heck, the 2025 Blues weren't even the 2019 Blues, and they won 12 straight!)

The whole "everyone on CP agrees that some of the vets should be traded, but let's wait for the right time to maximize the return" thing was a giant lie. I don't know why I allowed myself to think it wasn't.

Look at which posts get thanks and which ones don't... it's not hard to see where CP is at on what the Flames should do this season. Most are on team keep-everyone-and-make-playoffs. Many on here always were.

A couple more wins, and I bet there will be calls for not only re-signing Andersson, but also trading Parekh and our 2 firsts for Crosby...

I'm becoming increasingly at peace with the fact that this will be a "just squeak in and anything can happen" team for the rest of eternity. And you know what, maybe that's ok. Just gotta keep waiting for the next miracle run. I hope it happens in my lifetime.

It probably won’t. That’s why it’s best to stop obsessing about it and just enjoy the hockey.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

^ I appreciate what you're saying here. But it's a long way off from...



That post, especially the last part, seemed to strike a belittling, contemptuous tone toward team tank. And the post got 17 thanks & counting.

From that post, I take it you're fully on the make-playoffs train. How am I supposed to interpret it any other way? And if you want & expect the team to make the playoffs, how can you also be in favor of trading the 3 vets? The two positions don't seem compatible. Those 3 vets have played key roles in getting this team to within a few points of a playoff spot after the bad start. Remove those three (or heck, any two of them) from the lineup, and the team isn't likely to win many games.

Being fluid as a fan is a good thing. Being open to having your mind changed in response to changing dynamics and new evidence is a great thing. I started the year on team playoffs; I saw 2-9-2 and didn't think there was any coming back from it, so I switched to team tank. Now I see this climb back to .500 as a missed opportunity to draft a franchise altering player. Now the team will have to find a way to rebuild without drafting in the top 3 this year. It is what it is. I hope it works out.

This team may make the playoffs, sure. But they've been playing pressure-free hockey since most people in the hockey world wrote them off. Now that they're back in the race, the pressure is going to start to return. How they handle it will say a lot about the type of team they really are. I don't think they'll ultimately make it in, but being in the race might tempt Flames management to hang on to everyone including Andersson, resulting in yet another missed opportunity to secure quality futures. Hopefully you can understand why these kinds of things cause frustration for many fans.

Then again, like you said, us fans have no control over what happens. And spending too much time thinking about this stuff can get exhausting.

Welp, there's your problem right there. I'm actually not in favor of playoffs this season, but I'm sure not going to be mad if they manage to make it. I'd be proud of them being able to recover from a disastrous start, but I agree that it's best for the long term health of the franchise if they draft a top line forward. I just don't put all my eggs in that basket, as there are a lot of other things that have to go right for a franchise to properly rebuild. Drafting high is just one part of the equation.

So, I've come to accept that there's just too much competitiveness in this group to just throw in the towel, which is probably a good thing for team building and culture but does undermine the roster building somewhat. That's why I'm also in favor of trading the veterans for good returns (not dumping them for whatever you can get) because that will push the build forward at a faster rate by acquiring assets, removing the driving force that is pushing them higher in the standings, and also allowing some of the kids on the farm an opportunity to show what they can at the NHL level.

I think the real intent behind my comment was to not only indicate that this team is playing really well these days, but also for fans to accept that they have a legitimate shot at a playoff spot now. They also still have a legitimate shot at finishing bottom 5. It's a weird season that seems to be quite chaotic around the league unless you're Colorado or Dallas, so it's probably best to enjoy the small moments along the way and not worry about the long term outlook until the trade deadline.

I think the only other thing I'd say is to stop taking internet comments as being a direct personal address to you or whatever group you align with. That always leads to trouble.