Worst team in the league - Are we "OK" with it?

[Barnet Flame]

After last night, we're still on course for a perfect 4 and 78 season.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Parekh???

Klapka in his 1st full season. Coronato and Pachal in their 2nd full season. (30ish games in their first year prior).

Zary and Pospisil in their 3rd.

Kevin Bahl in his 4th season with 2 prior seasons with minimal action (6 years in the league), but is only 25.

I get that we want all kids in the lineup right away, but we haven't really had much in the way of top line prospects until the last couple of years. I'm not sure who you would be putting in the lineup right now that's NHL ready other than Kuznetsov, and he's a bottom pairing d-man.

If part of the plan is to get top picks in the next couple of years, our “window of relevance” is (at the most optimistic) 5 years away. Should we entertain including some of our current, more valuable older prospects in trade discussions?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

As long as all of the fans who want a bad team buy tickets to the games there is nothing to worry about

Why do you care if Edwards makes money this year ?

Season ticket holders are already locked in . The variable 500/1000 people a night are relatively irrelevant and they are way below cap

They averaged 17500 as a 96 point team last season .Even if they drop to 16500 which would be a bottom 3 season ever for the franchise for attendance they are more then saving the salary costs with their low payroll

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why do you care if Edwards makes money this year ?

Season ticket holders are already locked in . The variable 500/1000 people a night are relatively irrelevant and they are way below cap

They averaged 17500 as a 96 point team last season .Even if they drop to 16500 which would be a bottom 3 season ever for the franchise for attendance they are more then saving the salary costs with their low payroll

I don’t care if it’s Edward’s makes money
But

I bet he does

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Here’s an interesting look at “rebuilds”

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/do...fs-stanley-cup

Now people may disagree with their criteria for entering and exiting a rebuild but on average it took 8.5 years to exist a rebuild (and according to their standing criteria Flames haven’t even entered one yet )

This is why expecting a fast turnaround when we haven’t even bottomed out / entered a true rebuild is unlikely if not crazy

Also funny / sad is that of the “successful” rebuilds of the last 20 years - The Flames rebuild had the least success

The trouble is, most teams don’t start deliberately rebuilding until they’ve already been out of the playoffs for multiple years. So one of the biggest factors in how long a rebuild takes is how quickly does the team braintrust recognize that a rebuild is necessary.

If they don’t start selling off veterans assets for picks until they’ve missed the playoffs three seasons running, their time in the wilderness will be Rebuild + 3 years. So even if the ‘rebuild’ part only takes 5 years, that’s 8 seasons out of the playoffs.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Parekh???

Klapka in his 1st full season. Coronato and Pachal in their 2nd full season. (30ish games in their first year prior).

Zary and Pospisil in their 3rd.

Kevin Bahl in his 4th season with 2 prior seasons with minimal action (6 years in the league), but is only 25.

I get that we want all kids in the lineup right away, but we haven't really had much in the way of top line prospects until the last couple of years. I'm not sure who you would be putting in the lineup right now that's NHL ready other than Kuznetsov, and he's a bottom pairing d-man.

Also Wolf. And they've played Gridin (and will again this year). I bet Kuz or Brus get callups too.

It's not like Farabee is old either. He's played 7 seasons but he's 25, like 4 months older than Bahl.

[Hockey_Ninja]

We deserve McKenna more than any other team in the league. So I'm here for it

[Shazam]

We're going to finish last and lose the lottery draft aren't we?

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Shazam

We're going to finish last and lose the lottery draft aren't we?

Only a 25 percent chance to win it

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

I don’t care if it’s Edward’s makes money
But

I bet he does

He's making more with the low payroll then with attendance at 18,000!

Hopefully he doesn't realize that

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Shazam

We're going to finish last and lose the lottery draft aren't we?

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Only a 25 percent chance to win it

This is one thing I don't get about some posters. There's just no guarantee here. And sometimes it can hurt badly - see 2007 - Philly losing Kane and getting JVR. Of course, oddly enough, most teams who lose the lottery despite being in last did OK: Florida "settled" for Barkov after missing Mackinnon, Carolina got Staal instead of MAF, and won a cup, Pittsburgh got Malkin and not Ovie.

Funniest lottery loss was the Isles losing the right to draft Kovalchuk, then not taking Spezza 2OA. Instead they trade the 2OA plus Chara to Ottawa for Yashin. Milbury has to be the worst GM of all time.

Plus I remember Alexandre Daigle, who had Lindros-like hype, and Nail Yakupov, described as "can't miss".

[troutman]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Only a 25 percent chance to win it

Even worse - we win the lottery and he refuses to play for Flames.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

They are.

There are 2 consistent components to this, ownership and failure to deliver in the playoffs. And before you try and come down on that statement, yes multiple things can be true at once. We have seen multiple complete roster turnovers, new coaches out of the wazoo, a half dozen new GMs, some brass in and out and yet the results over the last quarter century (!) speak for themselves.

It’s the only piece that hasn’t changed. You’d think ownership would be tired of being consistent losers, and yet.

You ignored the part of the post that points out how it's different.

Different decision makers under the same owner doing very different things.

I see little point in anchoring to a past that I don't see connected.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Shazam

We're going to finish last and lose the lottery draft aren't we?

We’d still get a top 3 player and we’re going to need 2-3 of those types to get out of this anyway, so whatever. It really wouldn’t be a big deal.

This situation is going to take 5-6 years to fix because the Flames refused to do it properly. To Cliff’s point- he’s right.

[Shazam]

Yeah I know. It would be such a Flamey thing to happen though.

[Usernamefatigue]

I think a lot of us forget the impact of finishing last on the players who we'll want to lead us in a rebuild. If finishing last destroys Parekh's and Wolf's confidence then it isn't worth it at all. It's why I supported them sending Gridin to the Wranglers. I think we have to preserve some of these guys and not have them get used to losing.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

We’d still get a top 3 player and we’re going to need 2-3 of those types to get out of this anyway, so whatever. It really wouldn’t be a big deal.

This situation is going to take 5-6 years to fix because the Flames refused to do it properly. To Cliff’s point- he’s right.

At some point the organization was going to find out that the "retool" wasn't going to work. Its not a thing. At the very least its not a high probability strategy for anything. In my eyes they've always been at risk of just prolonging the process.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by troutman

Even worse - we win the lottery and he refuses to play for Flames.

That would be something, you make such a commitment to losing that it does not make career sense to sign with the team that drafted you and thanks to new NIL money you can make the same or more as an ELC and you decide to stay at Penn State until you are traded.

He would have to be willing to hold out for a year or two but eventually you would get your way.

[FlamesAddiction]

There is always a lot of talk about how long rebuilds take and the risk of having unsuccessful rebuilds. I don't think retooling is any different, it's just rebuilding in a different way. It probably just maintains the status quo longer, but you have to spend more assets to do it and suffer a net loss in assets in the long run.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There is always a lot of talk about how long rebuilds take and the risk of having unsuccessful rebuilds. I don't think retooling is any different, it's just rebuilding in a different way. It probably just maintains the status quo longer, but you have to spend more assets to do it and suffer a net loss in assets in the long run.

Yeah that's a very good point.

It also increases the odds of keeping older guys past their peak value window, because you are always trying to stay 'in it' until the end.