[News] Waiver Wire Oct 2 - Prosvetov, Kerins clear. Avs claim Solovyov

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dino7c

high danger chances 13-3 Flames...uh IDK

I think Vancouver had 13 breakaways from their penalty killing unit alone

[activeStick]

Well, reports were that Prosvetov had a lot of interest prior to signing with the Flames, so I'm expecting him to get claimed by one of those teams assuming their current backup option isn't anyone special.

[tvp2003]

If Kerins doesn't get claimed, I think he can still play a certain number of games and still be sent down to the AHL?

My guess is that Gridin is here in case Kerins gets claimed. If Kerins is not claimed, then perhaps he sticks around while Gridin (who doesn't need waivers) gets sent down.

[Super-Rye]

Shame about Kerins and Solovyov.

As competition ratcheted up Kerin's game fell off. He's not quite ready yet, hopefully he passes through. Would be a shame if he didn't because the Flames need centers and offense and he's not far away from being part of the potential answer there. He's also the new Phillips though where people are going to bring him up and complain constantly that he's not/didn't get a fair chance. I think he's more likely to be an NHLer than Phillips though.

Solovyov I'm not surprised but I am disappointed. I thought Solo was the 7th best D for this team in preseason. Better than both Miromanov and Bean. Miro might have been the worst defender during this entire pre-season, and got walked a few times by fringe AHL guys. Why he's still here I am not sure cause he was Nik Grossman levels of bad this preseason.

Bean's like a less talented Kris Russell. Mediocre 2-way player that gets caved defensively but is willing to throw himself face first in front of pucks. I guess that has some sort of value. Like, if I really dug deep to find some silver lining. Real deep.

Prosvetov i figured would be backup by default. He didn't have a great camp but man did Cooley have an even worse camp. I'm surprised they kept him in the end. Seems like a great guy but he did not look comfortable out there at any point.

We will see how it plays out, time will tell. I had a good feeling that this team was going to be competitive last year, I do not get that same feeling this year. Last year they looked dialed in right from the get go. This year they've been absolutely out played and out worked for a majority of the pre-season. Their puck management has been especially worrying. They're slow, they're inaccurate with their passes. Outside of Frost, Gridin, and Parekh I feel like no one showed any consistent offensive creativity. The team for the most part had a pretty bad training camp IMO.

If they don't get going here fast the season could get away from them pretty quick.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

How in the world does one simultaneously argue that the concept of rookies stealing jobs is a farce because Kerins got sent down and that the 19 year old who vastly outplayed him and is still up isn’t ready for the NHL.

I'm assuming the argument is framed around an older guy making it ahead of Kerins? I haven't read the entire thread, but I guess it would be arguing that maybe Kerins was more deserving of a spot than Kirkland or whichever other older guy they think did worse than Kirkland. Logically, that's what I would think, I dunno.

[Goriders]

Flames scored 13 goals in 7 preseason games including one 4 goal game.

So minus that game averaging 1.5 goals per game and they have a backup goalie that had a .561 save % last game.

None of those things point towards calm waters.

[Rhett44]

I was just mad because I am a big fan of Kerins. And I'm all about giving the young guys a chance.

But I understand it's all business and vets get a big advantage on making a team.

[Jetfire]

Regarding Prosvetov/Cooley, I imagine Wolf had a big say in who he wanted to trial run as his backup, which I imagine contributed to what we're seeing today with Ivan going down despite the stronger but still bumpy camp. I think we might be in the backup market again this year though if I had to guess.

[Goriders]

The last cuts were all fringe players. I don’t think you can say that they weren’t given opportunity to shine. None of them did outside of Gridin and Parekh.

In fact some of them are still on the roster by playing mediocre to horrible. Miromanov, Cooley and Kirkland.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Kirkland was better than Kerins in Seattle...Kerins got an extra chance last night and had zero hits and -3 the worst amoung forwards.

Kirkland is more physical and better defensively which likely gives him the nod for a 4th line role and likely in and out of the lineup. Kevin Rooney also has 320 NHL games, I know fans don't like 4th line grinders but Kerins dreams of having that career.

You can't just say he was bad because he was -3 though.

Rasmus had the league worst +/- last year. Many people on here were saying it is a flawed stat and he actually is better than that. But if the +/- actually matters, he was one of the worst players in the league last year.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ICRed

Hey PepsiFree, cant we just talk? Let's relax a little.

I just stated Kerins I believe has a good chance of getting claimed. I'm not disappointed with the decision to send him down. He's not a 4th liner and he cant sit either.

Gridin is still with the squad. I assume he's being sent down eventually based on who is on waivers today, unless Huby is injured. I think on merit, he has earned a chance to stay regardless of injury trouble.

Zayne is staying, I believe we all agree thats a foregone conclusion. I don't think he's had a great camp, at least by his standard.

However I believe Kuzy, Solo, Bruz(to a lesser extent) had great camps. Heck even Cicek looked good.
Bean, Pachal and Miro didn't. They all remain with the team. I'm not even sure if they have a plan for poor Miro.
On merit, would I put one or all of those guys ahead of Zayne this year? Yes I would. Not popular I'm sure but thats what I think.

Draft pedigree and profile aside, I believe the guys in the AHL should have the inside track right now based on what they can provide the team today. I'm in no rush to see Zayne and want to give him all the time he needs. I'm just as excited as everyone to see him play. I assume there will be an ongoing assessment on Zayne through the first few games. We can always call those guys back up I suppose.
But If we're talking about what was earned strictly in camp though, there doesn't seem to be any meritocracy to it.

Also my point was vets sat around until all the rookies were basically cut. Now they all look behind it with only one pre season game to go. I don't like the way we structured our rosters this preseason. Vets sat around too long and didnt compete for anything. The bubble vets that did play, like Bean and Pachal, we all said before camp they needed to prove something as younger players are nipping at their heels. I dont think they proved anything frankly, we just went status quo.

The whole “everyone is obtuse, can’t read, needs to relax” schtick is pretty boring. I don’t think you need to lash out because you’re receiving pushback on your opinion.

I’m not sure any of Kuz, Solo, or Brz looked much better than anyone. And, at best even by your measure, they maybe looked good enough to be on the bottom pairing. So what then? Having two rookies on the bottom pairing isn’t great. Having another two rookies sitting in the stands isn’t great either.

Who is having Kuz and Parekh as a pairing and then Solo and Brz sitting in the box good for? Who benefits? Bean, Pachal, Miro, these are all guys that can play or not, move up or down, it doesn’t matter.

And as far as the vet games go, what else would you expect? What do you think is going to happen next year when it gets reduced to 4 games?

Vets and rookies approach preseason differently. Maybe it doesn’t meet your fantasy of what competition looks like, but coaches know what they’re getting from vets, so when rookies are in the process of getting cut, it’s because they’re not above the level of the vet whose place they’re trying to take. You still have to earn a spot in the NHL.

What “we all said” doesn’t matter, because for one, we didn’t all say it, and second, if you followed popular sentiment through training camp you’d have evaluations of the same guys swinging wildly from game to game. They had seven vets on D that needed to prove they were top five given the likelihood of Parekh making it, and they didn’t all do that. The rookies also needed to prove they were among the top 6, and only Parekh did.

I don’t think you can say there’s no meritocracy when the guys who earned it are still here and the guys who haven’t, aren’t. Kerins didn’t earn a spot in the top six, and he didn’t show he could play 4th line. Sucks, but if you aren’t one of the 9 best players and can’t play on the 4th line, then you didn’t earn anything. Same goes for D.

They’re not keeping rookies up to sit and watch the game.

[RedHot25]

Uh in fairness he said a lot more things. -3 was just a minor point. Odd argument you have going there.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

You can't just say he was bad because he was -3 though.

Rasmus had the league worst +/- last year. Many people on here were saying it is a flawed stat and he actually is better than that. But if the +/- actually matters, he was one of the worst players in the league last year.

He gave you multiple reasons, and there were, for why he was bad. Not “just” the -3.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

What these decisions have shown me is the Flames were probably going with certain known entities over these kids no matter what.

Too bad those entities are the likes of Cooley, Miromanov and Bean, and not better players.

In the case of Kerins, it was going to take 6 games of playing lights out. High bar. Most good young players wouldn't have forced their hand either.

Losing near nhl ready centers in back to back camps isnt good for this organization.

Who says you cant have a skilled 4th line? The days of traditional energy lines have come and gone.

[442scotty]

Huskas comments about 3 vets ahead of him annoyed me. Well ya there’s 3 centres already in the top nine and they aren’t going anywhere for years! And they see Kerins as a top nine centre. We I guess it’s like saying see ya! Hope someone claims you! I’m pretty sure he could centre a fourth line ( 3B line!) of talented players instead of plugs. Other than Coleman possibly is anyone on the supposed top three lines going anywhere in the next couple of years????

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

What these decisions have shown me is the Flames were probably going with certain known entities over these kids no matter what.

Too bad those entities are the likes of Cooley, Miromanov and Bean, and not better players.

In the case of Kerins, it was going to take 6 games of playing lights out. High bar. Most good young players wouldn't have forced their hand either.

That's true. I miss the "always earned, never given" motto we used to have. I hope we bring that back.

They have to be bringing in a goalie, Cooley has not been the same since his injury.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

What these decisions have shown me is the Flames were probably going with certain known entities over these kids no matter what.

.

How so? Particularly the no matter what.
This stuff is simple.
A player didn't prove they were better enough, often enough, to displace a vet.

A spot wasn't earned. Being marginally better, some of the time, just isn't good enough. Particularly when performance declined as exhibition games got tougher.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Huskas comments about 3 vets ahead of him annoyed me. Well ya there’s 3 centres already in the top nine and they aren’t going anywhere for years! And they see Kerins as a top nine centre. We I guess it’s like saying see ya! Hope someone claims you! I’m pretty sure he could centre a fourth line ( 3B line!) of talented players instead of plugs. Other than Coleman possibly is anyone on the supposed top three lines going anywhere in the next couple of years????

We are pretty much stuck with Farabee, Huberdeau, Coleman, Backlund and Kadri. But ideally, I would like to move a few out to make room.

Backlund is the captain though so that isn't happening.

Maybe we could get a pick for Coleman and Farabee and open up space next year.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

What these decisions have shown me is the Flames were probably going with certain known entities over these kids no matter what.

Too bad those entities are the likes of Cooley, Miromanov and Bean, and not better players.

In the case of Kerins, it was going to take 6 games of playing lights out. High bar. Most good young players wouldn't have forced their hand either.

Losing near nhl ready centers in back to back camps isnt good for this organization.

Who says you cant have a skilled 4th line?

They see what we see, a pile of mid players.

They have more data/info than us. Like fitness, attitude in practice, off ice demeanour. With all that super set of data they choose certain guys over other.

No one that was waived was worth losing sleep over. Miro, Kirk and Cooley are not worth losing sleep over. Pospisil, Klapka, Bean, Hanley and Pachal are not worth getting upset over if they leave. We are up to our eyeballs in replacement level players, which would be fine if we had 1-2 superstar skaters.

Anyone can plug into the system from last year if they commit to it. That system makes fringe players look like NHLers.

Most of the guys we are fussing over will leave and be Bouma or Ferlunds or Kilington or Phillips.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by LurkinMcLurkface

A 2 way contract has nothing to do with wavier eligibility. a 2 way contract is just about how much money the player makes in the NHL VS the AHL. A 1 - way contract means the player makes NHL money while in the AHL.

If Kerins clears hes in the AHL, hes exempt from waivers for 30 day (I believe) so he can get called up and sent down for 30 days without needing it again.

I just wanted to add, that it's only the time spent on the NHL roster that counts.

A player can be assigned to the AHL without waivers if he already cleared waivers, and since then has not:

• played in 10 or more cumulative NHL Games, or
• been on an NHL roster for 30 cumulative days.